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Thread: Israeli archeologists find taboo toilet at ancient Jewish shrine

  1. #21
    tWebber Spartacus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robrecht View Post
    More importantly, why did he change his estimate from from ~600 BCE to ~900--600 BCE?
    Do you have a link? Unless I see the post where he said 600, I can't hold him accountable for it.

  2. #22
    tWebber robrecht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Do you have a link? Unless I see the post where he said 600, I can't hold him accountable for it.
    Bill posted the link earlier this thread.
    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

  3. #23
    tWebber Spartacus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robrecht View Post
    Bill posted the link earlier this thread.
    Ah, thanks. Found it

    But yeah, I'm almost as eager for his explanation as to why his arguments have changed as I am to hear why Trump changed his mind about Obama's birth certificate.

  4. #24
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Why exactly did you change your approximation from ~800 to ~900? Did you read another historian between yesterday afternoon and this morning that convinced you about this even broader window of time?
    "~" indicates approximate dates of the transition period not exact dates. Your splitting frog hairs. This period ~900 - 800 BCE is when Israel is described as being described as a defeated "people," and a Paleo Hebrew/Canaanite language.

    This period up to a ~800 - 600 BCE is when the first distinctive written language that may be identified as Hebrew. After ~800 - 600 BCE the Hebrews have a clear culture, language and identity, and the result is the Hebrew scripture.

    Quote Originally Posted by robrecht
    More importantly, why did he change his estimate from from ~600 BCE to ~900--600 BCE?
    Not a change.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 10-02-2016 at 04:28 AM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  5. #25
    tWebber Spartacus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    "~" indicates transition period not exact dates.
    A 100 year addition to the timeline is significant.

    Your splitting frog hairs.
    This time the point for prediction goes to adrift.

    This period ~900-800 BCE is when Israel is described as being described as a defeated "people."

    This period up to a ~800 - 600 CE is when the first written language that may be identified as Hebrew.
    A defeated people but not a distinct culture? I think you should provide some more specific definitions here.

  6. Amen Adrift, Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  7. #26
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Spartacus;373215]A 100 year addition to the timeline is significant.[quote]

    No, not in estimating when there is scanty and limited evidence. There are written records as with the Ugarites, Canaanites and Babylonians. This is a period of transition from pastoral Canaanite tribes to Hebrew kingdom or nation

    A defeated people but not a distinct culture? I think you should provide some more specific definitions here.
    Evidence shows they were a Canaanite Pastoral tribe or tribes mostly in the Hills of Judea that practiced Ugarite/Canaanite polytheism.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  8. #27
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    "~" indicates approximate dates of the transition period not exact dates. Your splitting frog hairs. This period ~900 - 800 BCE is when Israel is described as being described as a defeated "people," and a Paleo Hebrew/Canaanite language.

    This period up to a ~800 - 600 BCE is when the first distinctive written language that may be identified as Hebrew. After ~800 - 600 BCE the Hebrews have a clear culture, language and identity, and the result is the Hebrew scripture.



    Not a change.
    This round awarded to Adrift

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrift View Post
    My favorites are "splitting frog hairs", and "the sky is Carolina blue on a clear 4th of July at noon."



    ETA: I see Spart already awarded it

    I'm always still in trouble again

  9. Amen Adrift, Cerebrum123, Bill the Cat amen'd this post.
  10. #28
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    This round awarded to Adrift




    ETA: I see Spart already awarded it
    More favorites for the cheer leaders in the peanut gallery with no constructive responses. Your cheer leader outfits are a little tight.

    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  11. #29
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    More favorites for the cheer leaders in the peanut gallery with no constructive responses. Your cheer leader outfits are a little tight.

    You're just jealous that I still have the legs to pull it off

    I'm always still in trouble again

  12. #30
    tWebber robrecht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Not a change.
    You really do not see the difference in these two statements of yours?

    A "... There is no evidence that the Hebrews were a distinct culture and society prior to ~600 BCE. ..."

    B "... the Hebrew tribes [did] not have a distinctive culture and language ]was[ prior to the period ~900 - 600 BCE.. ..."

    Aside from the obvious difference of three centuries between "~600 BCE" and "~900--600 BCE," do we really need to repeat your past failure to understand some of the basics of the Canaanite and Hebrew alphabet, scripts, and languages, none of which you even understand but nonetheless ignorantly pontificate upon?
    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

  13. Amen Adrift, Bill the Cat, Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.

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