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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

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Worship God in Spirit and Truth

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  • Worship God in Spirit and Truth

    John 4:23-24 says, "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

    What does it mean to worship God in spirit and truth? How is the biblical teaching that God is spirit connected with the idea that we must worship God in spirit and truth?

  • #2
    I think it means that believers are spiritually counted as being in heaven already, through the link of the Holy Spirit.

    Revelation 5:6
    And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

    Revelation 7:13-15
    And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
      I think it means that believers are spiritually counted as being in heaven already, through the link of the Holy Spirit.

      Revelation 5:6
      And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

      Revelation 7:13-15
      And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
      Believers will definitely go to heaven. It is guaranteed.

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      • #4
        Okay, well that is true, but I think you totally missed the point of my response, and how it answered your question.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
          Okay, well that is true, but I think you totally missed the point of my response, and how it answered your question.
          I understand now.

          You made a good point. That is something that I've never thought of before.

          Comment


          • #6
            “Then the Lord reached out his hand and touched my mouth and said to me, ‘Now, I have put my words in your mouth’” (Jeremiah 1:9). The connection between Jeremiah and Moses. God promised that he would raise up a prophet for his people like Moses: “I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him” (Deuteronomy 18:18). - It will be the same with worshiping God in Spirit and Truth, the Holy Spirit is the One who breathed out the words.

            John 16:

            12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.” (see John 17)

            Also, listing "Worship God in Spirit and Truth": Romans 8:16 (ESV) 16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God; Galatians 5:22 - 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness; Romans 8:14- 14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.


            New International Version

            On Denying the Incarnation


            1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
            Last edited by Marta; 10-17-2016, 07:43 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Jaxb View Post
              John 4:23-24 says, "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

              What does it mean to worship God in spirit and truth? How is the biblical teaching that God is spirit connected with the idea that we must worship God in spirit and truth?
              We see God's Spirit working through both Moses and Jeremiah (Torah/Old Testament) as we do with the New Testament on conversion of the Apostle Paul. The "Greatness" of Christ was seen in the Apostle Paul's conversion because Paul's conversion occurred after Jesus' crucifixion. The accounts of Paul's conversion experience describe it as miraculous, supernatural, or otherwise revelatory in nature. The very fact! was that the Holy Spirit "brought" Christ into the apostle's life and changed him on that day! Wonderful - how fast Christ will bring himself (Justice) to someone, that is the Spirit of Truth working!

              Sorry if I only sighted scripture on the last message. For Paul to persecute early Christians but then to become a follower of Jesus, was another sign of the Christ giving sight to the blind - true? I love this passage from Luke 7:18-27, but in that passage Jesus says, Go back and report to John what you have seen and heard: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor. 23 Blessed is anyone who does not stumble on account of me.” Who were considered the dead are raised? Those who walked in darkness - the utter darkness (Psalms 107,10 Some sat in darkness, in utter darkness, prisoners suffering in iron chains)



              I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ. For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being.
              — Galatians 1:11-16, NIV
              as Jesus said, "7 Will not God bring about justice for His elect who cry out to Him day and night? Will He continue to defer their help? 8 I tell you, He will promptly carry out justice on their behalf."

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