AM I of Appolos or Paul?

[anak2012]

Well, Neither Realy.

, And all though Gods order in the universe and our veins is proof enough for ordination, election in regards to Gods redemptive process. I will not be called after a calvinist and nor shall I call my self after this man or that man just to signify what my theological stance is. and for a Christian to do so is continue the mistake that has carried from generation to generation.

Many will say I am of Constantine , or the day of pentecost, or after presbyter or The Baptist..... etc etc well the lilst goes on for a while.. All of Christianity should drop all head lines.

And Just be called after there Lord and Redeemer.

[One Bad Pig]

I have yet to see any Orthodox claim to be "of Constantine." Pentacostals, Presbyterians, and Baptists are not called so after any man either. Regardless, dropping labels will not make disputes disappear; they'll only make them more difficult to resolve. No one would be more thrilled than the Orthodox if all followers of Christ were reunited with them in communion. However, reunification at the expense of doctrine and praxis is worse than useless.

[anak2012]

Good reply ... well If I go to a lutheran church I would be signifing that I am a lutheran.. right? Whether of MAN or Doctrine. It is something that we should drop as those in the WAY/Truth.
We both know that as soon as the messiah rose from the dead that Many copy Christs had be created. Because the spirit of Anti -Christ had gone out into the world from the Fallen entity.
so when the scriptures say ........." These men whose damnation we ordained" It is showing fourth that all the false doctrine in the world even the Little subtle ones in our local congregations. Are evidence that is all around us.

I have been Christian for 24 years. And spending 4 years at Pentecostal church,3 years at baptist,2 years at a conregationl church ,4 years at a evangelical,5 a bible church. etc... found and looked back on that only a few groups/churchs had the most important doctrine correct.


That most important doctrine is living and breathing. it is the heart an hope of salvation. "the atonement of Christ"

And when I had stoped going to Church and just met with a group to study/eat /pray.... that The truth/God got more intimate with me.Not me with him.

and one very specific truth became apperant. That his work "antoment" did not merely make salvation possible but Confirmed/achieved it....... It is not a crap shoot where creator throws out a hand full of dice and say oh , I hope they all get saved.

He is a God of blue print and pattern. This is so much clearer to me these days than everbefore. We begin to see the wheat growing with the chaff. When paul says in Acts chapter 13 :

# And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
# And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

Those chosen to be saved where saved ( Wheat) the those Not (chaff ) are The basis of what I am saying about the apostacy that is rampant in the churches .......that teach the atonement of Christ merely made salvation possible. It truly shields the child of God from truly embracing His God s love to the fullest.

[Alan3838]

Good reply ... well If I go to a lutheran church I would be signifing that I am a lutheran.. right? Whether of MAN or Doctrine. It is something that we should drop as those in the WAY/Truth.
We both know that as soon as the messiah rose from the dead that Many copy Christs had be created. Because the spirit of Anti -Christ had gone out into the world from the Fallen entity.
so when the scriptures say ........." These men whose damnation we ordained" It is showing fourth that all the false doctrine in the world even the Little subtle ones in our local congregations. Are evidence that is all around us.

I have been Christian for 24 years. And spending 4 years at Pentecostal church,3 years at baptist,2 years at a conregationl church ,4 years at a evangelical,5 a bible church. etc... found and looked back on that only a few groups/churchs had the most important doctrine correct.


That most important doctrine is living and breathing. it is the heart an hope of salvation. "the atonement of Christ"

And when I had stoped going to Church and just met with a group to study/eat /pray.... that The truth/God got more intimate with me.Not me with him.

and one very specific truth became apperant. That his work "antoment" did not merely make salvation possible but Confirmed/achieved it....... It is not a crap shoot where creator throws out a hand full of dice and say oh , I hope they all get saved.

He is a God of blue print and pattern. This is so much clearer to me these days than everbefore. We begin to see the wheat growing with the chaff. When paul says in Acts chapter 13 :

# And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
# And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

Those chosen to be saved where saved ( Wheat) the those Not (chaff ) are The basis of what I am saying about the apostacy that is rampant in the churches .......that teach the atonement of Christ merely made salvation possible. It truly shields the child of God from truly embracing His God s love to the fullest.

Good post anak, someone that understands that God calls us is refreshing.

[anak2012]

As Jude wrote we must contend for the faith once and for all(finished) handed down to the saints(choosen)

[One Bad Pig]

Good reply ... well If I go to a lutheran church I would be signifing that I am a lutheran.. right? Whether of MAN or Doctrine. It is something that we should drop as those in the WAY/Truth.

Are you saying we should drop the doctrine as well as the label? What then should we replace it with?

We both know that as soon as the messiah rose from the dead that Many copy Christs had be created.

No, I don't "know that". There were false messiahs before Jesus as well as after.

Because the spirit of Anti -Christ had gone out into the world from the Fallen entity.
so when the scriptures say ........." These men whose damnation we ordained" It is showing fourth that all the false doctrine in the world even the Little subtle ones in our local congregations. Are evidence that is all around us.

Sorry, I'm having trouble parsing the last two sentences. Could you please clarify? Could you provide a reference for your scripture quotation?

I have been Christian for 24 years. And spending 4 years at Pentecostal church,3 years at baptist,2 years at a conregationl church ,4 years at a evangelical,5 a bible church. etc... found and looked back on that only a few groups/churchs had the most important doctrine correct.

Who says what is the most important doctrine?

That most important doctrine is living and breathing. it is the heart an hope of salvation. "the atonement of Christ"

And when I had stoped going to Church and just met with a group to study/eat /pray.... that The truth/God got more intimate with me.Not me with him.

It seems to me that going off alone due to disagreements is only going to confirm to yourself that you have it right, because you no longer have opposition to your point of view.

and one very specific truth became apperant. That his work "antoment" did not merely make salvation possible but Confirmed/achieved it....... It is not a crap shoot where creator throws out a hand full of dice and say oh , I hope they all get saved.

So instead you think God throws out a hand full of dice and says, "the fives and sixes get saved, sucks to be the rest of you"?

He is a God of blue print and pattern. This is so much clearer to me these days than everbefore. We begin to see the wheat growing with the chaff. When paul says in Acts chapter 13 :

# And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
# And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

Those chosen to be saved where saved ( Wheat) the those Not (chaff ) are The basis of what I am saying about the apostacy that is rampant in the churches .......that teach the atonement of Christ merely made salvation possible. It truly shields the child of God from truly embracing His God s love to the fullest.

How is the choosing accomplished?

As Jude wrote we must contend for the faith once and for all(finished) handed down to the saints(choosen)

If we are chosen by God a la Calvin, what point is there to contending for the faith? What could it possibly accomplish?

[anak2012]

"If we are chosen by God a la Calvin, what point is there to contending for the faith? What could it possibly accomplish? "

Same reason Father comanded Jonah to Prophesy to Ninevah. Jonah New the out come And rebeled , But eventual came around to Honoring his fathers word.

Also Note: Romans 9


3For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

9For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.

10And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

[Johnny MacManky]

Good to see you here Anak, welcome.

Romans 9 (as with much of Paul's writing, or much of the Bible, come to that, can be (mis)interpreted to mean lots of things. Although I am most certainly not a Calvinist, I can see how such notions as absolute predetermined, uncondictional election and salvation could be wrought out of vs 13ff.

So Anak, what do you consider Rom 9 to actually be saying, and how does it relate to me, in my situation, today?

Cheers,

:johnny:

[anak2012]

Hi ,Johnny First let me tell you that I am also Not a calvanist. Infact I have never read any of his teachings, Nor have I ever visited a calvin church.
I have about 24 years under my belt since HIS redeeming my soul. although My conversion was not as drastic as Saul, was evident to me cleary.
But Nonethe less We cant make theological conclusions based experience.

We have the ancient text pre church and after.

Salvation and the atonement is what needs to be focused on.

Now myself having .......for many years belived by being taught by SOME my pentecostal and fundemental pastors that the atonement althought being Finished did not ensure salvation and that The blood did not achieve salvation but made it POSSIBLE.
That is why I would try my best to get some one saved either family , freind or foe....
But That thinking of Geting someone saved was right in that it was a noble thing from the heart it wasnt right with the lord.
Jesus said Go into the word and preach The Good news of the Kingdom Not preach a salvation program or the such.

Salvation is His busines and work . We Bring the word .... He breaths the LIFE...... saying..... " come alive Lazarus" Unless He speaks his life into us there is no reasoning even if Moses where to come back from the dead They still will not beleive even if there are miracles and wonders right in front of there eyes.
Truly the Unsaved ...... although May have good works "theChoose this day whome you will serve" only applies to the The Living (those made alive in Christ) so only thoose alive in christ can choose this day whome to serve. Those who are not alive in Christ are Dead and alienated from the communion and sup with God.
Now you may agree with all this... But still Not agree that when paul he says in Acts 13 that Only those predestined to saved............ believed . And although we do have free will it does not touch Gods will in his plan of Geting back what was lost through the First Adam.

To be cont...

[One Bad Pig]

Salvation and the atonement is what needs to be focused on.

I agree, that's pretty important.

Now myself having .......for many years belived by being taught by SOME my pentecostal and fundemental pastors that the atonement althought being Finished did not ensure salvation and that The blood did not achieve salvation but made it POSSIBLE.
That is why I would try my best to get some one saved either family , freind or foe....
But That thinking of Geting someone saved was right in that it was a noble thing from the heart it wasnt right with the lord.
Jesus said Go into the word and preach The Good news of the Kingdom Not preach a salvation program or the such.

The Good News is salvation.

Salvation is His busines and work . We Bring the word .... He breaths the LIFE...... saying..... " come alive Lazarus" Unless He speaks his life into us there is no reasoning even if Moses where to come back from the dead They still will not beleive even if there are miracles and wonders right in front of there eyes.
Truly the Unsaved ...... although May have good works "theChoose this day whome you will serve" only applies to the The Living (those made alive in Christ) so only thoose alive in christ can choose this day whome to serve. Those who are not alive in Christ are Dead and alienated from the communion and sup with God.

We can turn from God on our own but not to Him?

Now you may agree with all this... But still Not agree that when paul he says in Acts 13 that Only those predestined to saved............ believed . And although we do have free will it does not touch Gods will in his plan of Geting back what was lost through the First Adam.

To be cont...

I agree that those predestined will be saved. However, that does not nullify free will. God predestined those whom He foreknew (Rom. 8:29). He knew who would turn to Him before the world began. It's all a part of His plan.

[Kelp]

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