How does one teach non-religion to children?

[Seri]

Posted with moderator permission (National Intelligence Director Phoenix and Mountain Man).

My brother's son is five and recently told my brother that he "believed in God and in Jesus." Part of the problem was obvious: his kindergarten teacher had apparently broached the subject (mind you, public school), but it had also come up by way of the his friend's girlfriend while said friend was babysitting.

He's explained, as best he can, why it seems improbable that an entity created the universe, how multiple texts have contradictory assertions (including the Quran verse 2:257: "Allah is the guardian of those who believe. He brings them out of darkness into light; and (as to) those who disbelieve, their guardians are Shaitans who take them out of light into the darkness; they are inmates of fire, in it they shall abide.") , and even talked about FSM. However, he's looking for more help on the subject.

In what ways would you explain a weak agnostic point of view to a five year old?

[zorathruster]

Focus not on the specifics but on the generalities.

"Some people believe in the magic rabbit, some people believe they go off to heaven and spend eternity with famly. Lots of people believe different things about the way life and death are manifested. It is like ice cream. No matter how fancy ice cream is, with whipped cream or caramel syrup or just plain vanilla different people like ice cream in different ways. How do you like it? Well the creation of the universe and who and how it was created is like that ...everyone has a different opinion of how it works. who created it and how. What they believe makes them feel good...just like the ice cream they select. There were island cultures who thought the world was laid like an egg by a giant turtle. How you believe should be something you spend some time figuring out for yourself. But because it is difficult to make these choices at your age, just listen to everyone elses ideas and we will talk about them as you find them."

[Seasanctuary]

It's important to emphasize how forbidden religious beliefs are and, in fact, try to take away any reading or watching material which might talk about religions.

(Oops, sorry, that was my parent's approach to geological age and evolution. Didn't work out as intended.)

Seriously though, something like this might be a great approach. Most of us aren't [weak] Agnostics by virtue of being kept away from religion, but by knowledge of more than one. Plus, any almost any learning about the variety of culture in the world is good for curious youngin's.

[Zeluvia]

Teach ALL religions, so that is a good start.

But more important teach critical thinking (start with non-religious subjects, my dad used sandwich making) and the scientifc method.

[laffer]

It's not so much about teaching children 'non-religion'.. rather, teach them rational thinking from a young age.
Tell them about history of religion and the different religions out there.
Then let them make up their own minds. Hopefully, if you've done a good job at teaching them rational thinking, they'll figure it out on their own.

[rach12]

This thread reminds me of a conversation I had with my 6 year old last year. It went something like this:

Son: "Mom, why don't you believe in god?"

Me: "Well, Sweetie, I'm the kind of person who needs to be able to see things with my own eyes or feel things with my own hands before I will believe something exists. And since I have never seen god and he or she has never spoken to me, I don't believe god exists."

Son: "But god is real. He lives in the sky and takes care of us. "

Me: "How do you know god is real? Have you seen him or talked to him?"

Son: "No. He's dead. No one can talk to him anymore, but he is real."

Me: "Well Maya [our dog] is dead and you can't see her or talk to her anymore can you?"

Son: contemplates this for a few seconds and says "Good point."

So far, we've not had any more god conversations. I expect them to come up again some day. I just hope my (and hopefully his) non-belief does not cause any problems with other kids and parents in school. That certainly is a concern of mine. I've found that children are born proselytizers... and very convincing to other children.

[Oolon Colluphid]

Well I don't have kids so maybe my take on this doesn't count for much, but I think I'd just make sure he had access to other points of view. I'm afraid I chuckled when I read the following:-

"In what ways would you explain a weak agnostic point of view to a five year old?"

Because my answer would be IN NO WAYS! He believes in God; he's five years old and he probably also believes in Santa. There's no reason to suppose he always will, or that it's necessarily a bad thing if he continues to do so. Let him make up his own mind, and change it, and change it and change it again as he sees fit. If he's anything like me he'll be suspicious and may choose to rebel against anything that's given too hard a sell, including a weak agnostic point of view.

[CodewordConduit]

Well I don't have kids so maybe my take on this doesn't count for much, but I think I'd just make sure he had access to other points of view. I'm afraid I chuckled when I read the following:-

"In what ways would you explain a weak agnostic point of view to a five year old?"

Because my answer would be IN NO WAYS! He believes in God; he's five years old and he probably also believes in Santa. There's no reason to suppose he always will, or that it's necessarily a bad thing if he continues to do so. Let him make up his own mind, and change it, and change it and change it again as he sees fit. If he's anything like me he'll be suspicious and may choose to rebel against anything that's given too hard a sell, including a weak agnostic point of view.

Spot on.

I was reading a little to my daughter the other day, and the article referenced a sculpture of Jesus on the cross (she asks me to read from whatever's in my hands at the time now and then).

She said: "Is that the baby Jesus?"

I said, no, it's the grown up Jesus.

"What's a cross?"

I said, it was made by people to punish other people if they were naughty.

"Was Jesus naughty?"

I said, the Romans evidently thought so, but people like your grandad think he was always good.

"Nobody's always good Mummy."

Good point, I said. That satisfied her for the time being, but I really just answer questions as she asks them. Kids are pretty smart, and I reckon you should let them find their own way when it comes to belief.

[Bagger_Vance]

How about the novel idea of letting kids figure out what they want to believe? If the child requests information you can provide it as best as you can, but this idea of trying to get children to be carbon doxastic copies of parents is a religious idea in and of itself.

Sure people will try to indoctrinate your child, but that is no reason to participate yourself. Anyone trying to explain the mysteries of the universe to a toddler or elementary school kid has no agenda, but brainwashing because there is no expectation that the kid is going to voluntarily absorb and grasp the information presented. It is merely an attempt to overwhelm a human being without the skills to detect bad reasoning or logic.

On the front, I would argue that the best way to teach a kid a non-theist point of view is to teach them the fundamentals of good logic and reasoning. For good logic and reasoning skills are the best antidote to superstition.

[Kane]

On the front, I would argue that the best way to teach a kid a non-theist point of view is to teach them the fundamentals of good logic and reasoning. For good logic and reasoning skills are the best antidote to superstition.

Amen to that!