Regarding the plane crash on the Hudson. The media claimed "It's a miracle the Hudson plane landed safely.

[princesa]

I live in NY and the plane that crashed yesterday because a flock of birds hit the engine has been on the news non stop. It's all over the media to thank God all the passengers survived and likened it to a miracle.

My initial thought was: “No, it’s NOT a miracle Mr. Reporter, because if you're thanking God the plane landed safely and no one was injured, than by the same token, why aren't you damning God that the plane was put in jeopardy in the first place if He indeed had involvement. "He could have redirected the birds, you know. I envisioned his co-anchor chiming in with something to that effect but it would've been, rightfully, inappropriate I suppose.

Just wondering whether you believe God intervenes in these types of situations. If so, then why do other plane crashes yield no survivors, why didn’t He interfere then? What are we thankful to God for in such situations?

I pose this question because it really is ALL OVER the media as a miracle to which we should lay special supernatural gratitude.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

Does he? Maybe. Maybe not.

I think ultimately, the precedent is to give thanks in all things.

[ChemMJW]

I agree with you that this was not a miracle in the truest sense. I do not believe God suspended the laws of nature in order to allow this plane to crash-land safely. The skill of the human pilot seems more than enough in this case to rationalize the outcome.

On the other hand, I certainly don't damn God for "allowing" this to happen. I do not believe God is literally at work causing every single thing in the universe to happen at every single instant in time. This event simply happened. No need to involve any supernatural causes or effects. We can, however, rejoice and be thankful that nobody suffered catastrophic injuries.

[princesa]

ApologiaPhoenix - based on that precedent are we to give thanks when there are no survivors? Of what should we be thankful for at the loss of lives. Thank you.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

Princesa. Have you ever heard the story behind the hymn "It is well with my soul?"

All that happens passes through the hand of God first and he allowed it to happen for a greater good. We don't have to like everything, but we have to trust in all things.

[princesa]

ApologiaPheonix - therein lies my problem. I find it difficult to trust on that condition. Of babies being born with diseases which cause excruciating suffering or children being tormented and abused....to reason that this is passed through the hand of God for a greater purpose is hard for me to grasp. I want to, really, but I can't. Thank you for your answer.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

ApologiaPheonix - therein lies my problem. I find it difficult to trust on that condition. Of babies being born with diseases which cause excruciating suffering or children being tormented and abused....to reason that this is passed through the hand of God for a greater purpose is hard for me to grasp. I want to, really, but I can't. Thank you for your answer.

Have you ever read anything by Peter Kreeft?

[Manwë Súlimo]

to reason that this is passed through the hand of God for a greater purpose is hard for me to grasp

I would give God the credit of being a wee bit more clever than you or I. Whatever purpose there might have been for bad things to happen, God is still God and free to do as He will; but there is no evil in Him, so you can trust in whatever He does.

[princesa]

ApologiaPheonix - No, I have not. I'd be glad if you should recommend a book to me. I'm slowly studying Lewis' 'Problem of Pain'. I enjoy William Lane Craig a great deal and am reading his book on the atheist/christian debate. But mostly, I need a book to focus more on the understanding of suffering, that is my Achilles heel of faith.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

I'd say "Making Sense Out Of Suffering" and Philip Yancey's "Where Is God When It Hurts?"

I think your problem is more emotional though than logical. Logically, there is a good reason for evil to exist and be allowed to happen. Sometimes, it's hard to see that at particular cases.

I'd also point out if you reject the Christian worldview, you'd need to go somewhere where there is a better answer and I'm really curious what that would be. A naturalistic worldview where there is no good or evil?

Finally, did Jesus rise from the dead?

If he did, then Christianity is true, and there is an answer.

[princesa]

Beren -

Yes, I agree. I also thought that as well, but, still... If there is no evil in God, which I don't disagree with, and His goodness allows evil, than it is a goodness beyond any level of understanding I've ever had of the root word. Especially when this evil of abusing children is supposed to have a greater purpose. I simply am blind to such a purpose that would require this prerequisite. Faith doesn't fall into my lap under those circumstances. Beren, that requires one giant leap of faith, and all I want is a little understanding to get me there. Thank you for your response.

[Manwë Súlimo]

Beren, that requires one giant leap of faith, and all I want is a little understanding to get me there.

Once upon a time, there was a man that walked the Earth that gave his entire self for the spiritual and physical good of all around him. He lived his 30+ years on this Earth with no sin, yet he was spit upon, beaten, shamed, crucified between two thieves. Even this man was at a loss for words for what had happened to him because he cried out, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me."

But this sad little tale ended on a high note three days later and its effects are still felt today.

I don't know WHY so-and-so was born with no eyesight and with the mental capacity of a vegetable; but I can look in the past and see that God's faithfulness has been proven time and again. So I can take that evidence, and make that GIANT leap of a faith much smaller.

[princesa]

I'd say "Making Sense Out Of Suffering" and Philip Yancey's "Where Is God When It Hurts?"

Thank you (not sure your response will appear 'blue' as I don't know how to do that)


I think your problem is more emotional though than logical. Logically, there is a good reason for evil to exist and be allowed to happen. Sometimes, it's hard to see that at particular cases.

It is absolutely hard, AP- not everyone can understand the logic of believing in God, the logic of evil to exist. For such people like myself, I have to rely on what I have. My emotion. The same emotion God instilled in me to. God knows everyone can't reason their way into faith. God knows there are people like me, who would do anything to understand enough to fall back on that beautiful faith.


I'd also point out if you reject the Christian worldview, you'd need to go somewhere where there is a better answer and I'm really curious what that would be. A naturalistic worldview where there is no good or evil?

I don't reject it, I want to understand it more. I want to embrace it as I once did, before I began to question it. I want to fall in love with it again.

Finally, did Jesus rise from the dead?

I don't know. I hope so. Are you so certain?

If he did, then Christianity is true, and there is an answer.

Thank you.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

If you spend the time looking at the situation and the circumstances, faith will be difficult.

If you look at the God who is there in the midst of the situation and circumstances, faith will be much easier.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

It is absolutely hard, AP- not everyone can understand the logic of believing in God, the logic of evil to exist. For such people like myself, I have to rely on what I have. My emotion. The same emotion God instilled in me to. God knows everyone can't reason their way into faith. God knows there are people like me, who would do anything to understand enough to fall back on that beautiful faith.

First off, the quoting feature will make things much easier.

Second, you have more than emotion. You have your mind. Tell me, when you balance your checkbook, do you do it based on emotion? Is a marriage relationship based only on emotion? Do you do what is good simply for emotion only?

I don't reject it, I want to understand it more. I want to embrace it as I once did, before I began to question it. I want to fall in love with it again.

Then I would fear you're seeking an emotion. What do you want? If you say you want the joy of the Christian life, you won't find it. If you say you want Christ, I believe you will find that joy and Christ both.

I don't know. I hope so. Are you so certain?

Absolutely. I'd recommend Habermas and Licona's work, "The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ." I'd also recommend you go to Habermas's website and listen to his MP3s on doubt.