Question to Christians on homosexual Christians and the fate of their 'soul''

[princesa]

I have an acquaintance who has been with his partner for a number of years. They have raised children together and appear to have a very loving union. Their children are well adjusted, happy, and there is no lack of love in their household.

"Mark" is a Christian and a philanthropist. They both are. He is very knowledgeable of the NT and quite honestly, one of the nicest and most compassionate souls I've ever met. He loves Christ and is very vocal about it. According to the OT, he is living in sin, yet, he's accepted Christ so he is 'saved' irrespective of his sin. (?) Does the NT touch on this subject? He states it does not and therefore he doesn't consider himself or his partner as participating in sin.

Is the sinful nature of homosexuality as described in the OT mentioned in the NT? If not, than is he correct in his statement of "Jesus's message was that of love. He spoke of not judging others and loving your neighbors and treating them as you would be treated, he wouldn't approve of my being ostracized by society and treated like a criminal for something that was not my choice, something I was born with". {his words}

What do you make of his statement? Would this man be forgiven this biblical sin to which he is not repentant b/c he does not recognize it as a sin due to it not being mentioned in the NT.

Of course Jesus does not give detail as to every sin imaginable, however, I know many Christians that would be quick to say his fate is not with Christ because the bible clearly mentions that homosexuals are an abomination. Yet, I find it hard to believe that this man who gives of his time so freely and lovingly to help others and shows a deep love for Christ be sent to hell b/c he lives with a man.

I wonder as to your thoughts on the matter.

Thank you.

[Dee Dee Warren]

I have an acquaintance who has been with his partner for a number of years. They have raised children together and appear to have a very loving union. Their children are well adjusted, happy, and there is no lack of love in their household.

"Wilbur" is a Christian and a philanthropost. He is very knowledgeable of the NT and quite honestly, one of the nicest and most compassionate souls I've ever met. He loves Christ and is very vocal about it. According to the OT, he is living in sin, yet, he's accepted Christ so he is 'saved' irrespective of his sin. (?) Does the NT touch on this subject? He states it does not and therefore he doesn't consider himself or his partner as participating in sin.

Is the sinful nature of bestiality as described in the OT mentioned in the NT? If not, than is he correct in his statement of "Jesus's message was that of love. He spoke of not judging others and loving your neighbors and treating them as you would be treated, he wouldn't approve of my being ostracized by society and treated like a criminal for something that was not my choice, something I was born with". {his words}

What do you make of his statement? Would this man be forgiven this biblical sin to which he is not repentant b/c he does not recognize it as a sin due to it not being mentioned in the NT.

Of course Jesus does not give detail as to every sin imaginable, however, I know many Christians that would be quick to say his fate is not with Christ because the bible clearly mentions that having relations with an animal is an abomination. Yet, I find it hard to believe that this man who gives of his time so freely and lovingly to help others and shows a deep love for Christ be sent to hell b/c he lives with a horse.

I wonder as to your thoughts on the matter.

Thank you.

[princesa]

dizzle,

If my question was offensive, I didn't mean it to be. As ludicrous as you may find my query, it is a sincere one.

Thank you for your time.

[Dee Dee Warren]

So is mine. If you can answer mine, you have found the answer to yours.

[princesa]

So is mine. If you can answer mine, you have found the answer to yours.

I can't answer yours.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Really you can't?

So you think that someone who has years of unrepentant bestiality is truly regenerate, and not only unrepentant, actually claims it is right?

I think you don't want to answer the question.

[princesa]

Really you can't?

So you think that someone who has years of unrepentant bestiality is truly regenerate, and not only unrepentant, actually claims it is right?

I think you don't want to answer the question.

I actually thought you were going the other way with this. I thought you were insinuating that of course he'll be forgiven since he's doing such good works with such great faith and completely oblivious to his state of sin. (genuinely, in his mind)

Obviously I was wrong. What if he's unrepentant b/c he REALLY believes and is convinced that he is loved by God regardless of the tendencies to which he was born with and acted upon.

This man indeed believes he is saved and living in Christ based on Christs teaching of love.

You're wrong in assuming I don't want to answer the question. I simply don't know the answer. I'm not afraid of the answer. That's why I posted it. To get many different opinions and thoughts on it.

[Alucard]

"If you love me, you will obey my commandments" (John 14:15).

[Dee Dee Warren]

princesa, I like answering questions with questions. You ask

Obviously I was wrong. What if he's unrepentant b/c he REALLY believes and is convinced that he is loved by God regardless of the tendencies to which he was born with and acted upon.

Muslim terrorists REALLY believe they are doing the right thing. Do you think they are going to heaven?

[princesa]

"If you love me, you will obey my commandments" (John 14:15).

At the risk of not leaving here unscathed, to which commandments do you refer to?

Christ is the end of the [Old Covenant] Law for righteousness to every one that believeth (Rm. 10:4).

How is the above scripture interpreted as it relates to the OT law of homosexuality as an abomination. If at all. Has it been forgiven in light of Christ's new covenant?

You have to question first before gaining understanding. That's why I'm here and that's why I've posted, not because I already know the answers but because I'm looking for them.

[princesa]

princesa, I like answering questions with questions. You ask



Muslim terrorists REALLY believe they are doing the right thing. Do you think they are going to heaven?

So, your understanding is that the destiny of this mans soul is the same as a muslim terrorist. He's not blowing up buildings and killing innocents nor does he have hatred in his heart. He's not harming anyone in the name of religion, quite the opposite in fact. Someone who is raising children with love, a peaceful man who hasn't harmed a sould will share the same fate as a Muslim terrorist.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[Alan3838]

At the risk of not leaving here unscathed, to which commandments do you refer to?

Christ is the end of the [Old Covenant] Law for righteousness to every one that believeth (Rm. 10:4).

How is the above scripture interpreted as it relates to the OT law of homosexuality as an abomination. If at all. Has it been forgiven in light of Christ's new covenant?

You have to question first before gaining understanding. That's why I'm here and that's why I've posted, not because I already know the answers but because I'm looking for them.

Christ didn't abolish the law He fulfilled it. Homosexuality is an abomination to God. Why don't we all commit murder and claim that were forgiven? In If you really want to understand then here ya go.

Ro 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Ro 7:7 What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Ro 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Ro 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet

Le 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.


You friend can believes as he pleases but the bible says different.

[princesa]

Christ didn't abolish the law He fulfilled it. Homosexuality is an abomination to God. Why don't we all commit murder and claim that were forgiven? In If you really want to understand then here ya go.

Ro 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Ro 7:7 What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Ro 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Ro 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet

Le 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.


You friend can believes as he pleases but the bible says different.

Thank you, your response was helpful.

[Captain America]

The New Testament does say some things about homosexuality. I can't think about anything specifically that Jesus says about it unless you interpret Matthew 19: 11, 12 to be speaking about homosexuals. Most would say this is speaking to any single not just homosexuals.

Paul does say a few things, for example Romans 1: 26. 27 and 1 Corinthians 6: 9, 10. There is also Jude 7. Please read these in with the surrounding context to understand what they are saying.

Now that I have given you some pertinent bible passages to consider, let me try to explain what I believe and what I think these passages mean. Sex outside of marriage and other than the way God intended is wrong. God is the judge of who gets into heaven and who doesn't. No man can tell you this one will and this one won't, nor should he try as I understand scripture. We, as men, can tell you that the scriptures condemn sin. Thank God, He has provided a way of escape from the consequences of sin, of which we all fall short of the ideal. We are all sinners by nature. Because of Christ' death and His sacrifice to have our sins forgiven, Jesus can tell us, "every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men." Now the main question becomes, "what is this blasphemy against the Spirit?"

All I can give you is my opinion. I believe that blasphemy of the Spirit is the condition we come to when we continually harden our hearts against that which the Spirit tells us is sin and reject what the Spirit speaks to us about Jesus Christ and the gift of salvation from our sin that He offers. Has your friend committed this type of sin? Only he and God knows the answer to that question. But as a good friend, I would attempt to tell him my understanding and ask him to examine his heart to ensure that he is walking toward salvation and not toward destruction. This is the same advice I would give to anyone who is a sinner. Remember, that is all of us.

Some sins are more egregious to God (and especially more egregious to other people, but God is the judge, remember) than others, but none of can say that we are without sin. We each will have to answer not only for our actions but even our idle thoughts. I'll be praying that you and your friend come to an understanding of the truth in this matter.

(I apologize for the lengthy answer, but I felt it was necessary to be a little verbose to make myself clear.)

[princesa]

Captain America,

Thank you for your response. I appreciate your insight.

I don't consider myself 'a good friend' to this person. He is an acquaintance. I don't know that
it is my place to engage him in a conversation to which I am to ask him to question his current state of living and it's role in his salvation.

However, your point that he should "examine his heart to ensure that he is walking toward salvation and not toward destruction" was my point. Based on the few encounters I've had with him and general conversation, it appears he does believe that he is a good person who strives to follow Christ and will indeed see Christ.

I did not know the NT touched on the issue. I will read the verses you've recommended. Thank you.