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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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Presuppositional Apologetics

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  • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I have a problem with the idea that you see in certain conservative Christian circles that presuppositional apologetics are the only acceptable way to argue for Christianity. Their appeal is already going to be limited to people who reason in a super-logical, syllogistic manner, and then to people who actually accept the logical claims being made. As a Christian, I can't help but think this implies that the gospel call is effectively only for a certain set of INTJ people.
    If we could have been saved through the wisdom of men, there would have been no need for the Cross. If only the super-intelligent can be saved, those of us who are not, are done for. Logic is a useful servant, but a bad master.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View Post
      If we could have been saved through the wisdom of men, there would have been no need for the Cross. If only the super-intelligent can be saved, those of us who are not, are done for. Logic is a useful servant, but a bad master.
      I belief it is the sincere that are saved in the spiritual journey of all humanity, regardless of the cross or no cross.
      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
        I belief it is the sincere that are saved in the spiritual journey of all humanity, regardless of the cross or no cross.
        One can be sincere and be deadly wrong. That is a fact of life.
        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

        Comment


        • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
          One can be sincere and be deadly wrong. That is a fact of life.
          True, because we are fallible human beings, everyone who is sincere can be deadly wrong, or maybe everyone can be wrong it is not deadly, except that is the inevitable consequence of all living things.. These are the facts of life regardless of what we believe.
          Last edited by shunyadragon; 04-05-2017, 03:04 PM.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
            True, because we are fallible human beings, everyone who is sincere can be deadly wrong, or maybe everyone can be wrong it is not deadly, except that is the inevitable consequence of all living things.. These are the facts of life regardless of what we believe.
            So Bahá'u'lláh, who was a fallible human being, probably got a lot of things wrong concerning God and spiritual teachings...
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • Originally posted by seer View Post
              So Bahá'u'lláh, who was a fallible human being, probably got a lot of things wrong concerning God and spiritual teachings...
              Concerning the issue of the fallible nature of humans I was clearly not referring to the Manifestations of, but the history of humans claiming 'my way or your road kill on the highway,' as many claim from a diverse conflicting human perspective, of what is truth and, of course who is saved.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                Concerning the issue of the fallible nature of humans I was clearly not referring to the Manifestations of, but the history of humans claiming 'my way or your road kill on the highway,' as many claim from a diverse conflicting human perspective, of what is truth and, of course who is saved.
                But Bahá'u'lláh claimed that he knew the correct way to God. As did Moses who was also a manifestation of God. So Moses was infallible?
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • Originally posted by seer View Post
                  But Bahá'u'lláh claimed that he knew the correct way to God. As did Moses who was also a manifestation of God. So Moses was infallible?
                  As did all Manifestations of God. First we have nothing documented where Moses was the author.

                  Again . . .

                  Concerning the issue of the fallible nature of humans I was clearly not referring to the Manifestations of God, but the history of humans claiming 'my way or your road kill on the highway,' as many claim from a diverse conflicting human perspective, of what is truth and, of course who is saved.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    As did all Manifestations of God. First we have nothing documented where Moses was the author.
                    Yet your religion teaches that Moses gave us the Ten Commandments and Torah:

                    http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/P...ighlight#pg408

                    http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/P...=highlight#gr4

                    Again . . .

                    Concerning the issue of the fallible nature of humans I was clearly not referring to the Manifestations of God, but the history of humans claiming 'my way or your road kill on the highway,' as many claim from a diverse conflicting human perspective, of what is truth and, of course who is saved.
                    So because you are fallible you can't understand what Bahá'u'lláh taught? And I'm glad you agree that Jesus Christ was infallible.
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by seer View Post
                      Yet your religion teaches that Moses gave us the Ten Commandments and Torah:

                      http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/P...ighlight#pg408

                      http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/P...=highlight#gr4
                      Yes,but we have nothing penned in the name of Moses.


                      So because you are fallible you can't understand what Bahá'u'lláh taught?
                      No

                      And I'm glad you agree that Jesus Christ was infallible.
                      All the Manifestations of God are of the same essence.

                      All we have is second and third person writings of unknown authors that reflect what they believed at the time they were written.
                      Last edited by shunyadragon; 04-07-2017, 07:23 PM.
                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                      Comment


                      • Good evening Mr. SD!
                        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                        Yes,but we have nothing penned in the name of Moses.
                        (...)
                        All the Manifestations of God are of the same essence.

                        All we have is second and third person writings of unknown authors that reflect what they believed at the time they were written.
                        If you reject any trace of real authorship to them, how can you know they were infallible?
                        We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore on Christ's behalf: 'Be reconciled to God!!'
                        - 2 Corinthians 5:20.
                        In deviantArt: ll-bisto-ll.deviantart.com
                        Christian art and more: Christians.deviantart.com

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          Yes,but we have nothing penned in the name of Moses.
                          I have no idea what you mean. Your own religion teaches that Moses gave us the Torah, that we find in the OT. You know the one you can read today. The one your religion actually quotes and references.




                          No
                          If you can understand the teaching of Bahá'u'lláh then I can understand the teachings of Christ.



                          All we have is second and third person writings of unknown authors that reflect what they believed at the time they were written.
                          Yet again, your religion believes that the Gospels and New Testament are accurate enough to use and reference - a lot. Even the writings of Paul. And just because some of the authors were unknown doesn't mean they didn't know what they were talking about.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment

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