split from: Christology: Did Jesus lay down His divine nature

[Gatsby]

I think you are right but the culmination is being born into eternal life, else your spirit goes to destruction.

Please dont think like that. It makes me sad to hear you say that because:

You are already immortal and have eternal life. The Spirit cannot be destroyed. Why?

Because God is Infinite and Eternal and He is in you and you are in Him.

We live and move and have our Being in Him. If we didn't then we wouldn't be here, conscious of anything at all.

Regards
Gatsby

[Ormly]

No, Jesus lay down his mortal nature and then embodied his Divine Nature.

Regards
Gatsby

Jesus didn't lay down anything until He went to the cross.

[John Goddard]

Please dont think like that. It makes me sad to hear you say that because:

You are already immortal and have eternal life. The Spirit cannot be destroyed. Why?

Because God is Infinite and Eternal and He is in you and you are in Him.

I go by the Bible. Since God is infinitely powerful He can destroy your soul in Hell

Don't be sad,

Matthew 10:28...rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 7:13 ...broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

[barnasha]

It could be said to someone who might understand it, that one cannot do away with his or her "divine nature", one can only be ignorant of it.

I go by the Bible. Since God is infinitely powerful He can destroy your soul in Hell

"biblically" speaking what we refer to now as 'hell' is more of an event than a place.

and it is not the destruction of a soul, but rather the spirit's torment from being apart from God for eternity, and the terror of knowing it and being unable to change it since it is too late.

[Ormly]

It could be said to someone who might understand it, that one cannot do away with his or her "divine nature", one can only be ignorant of it.

A divine Nature can, of necessity, depart.

[John Goddard]

It could be said to someone who might understand it, that one cannot do away with his or her "divine nature", one can only be ignorant of it.

"biblically" speaking what we refer to now as 'hell' is more of an event than a place.

As far as Purgatory, sure, it's a spiritual state as your body lies in the earth.

But as for the Lake of Fire, if you are physically resurrected being delivered from the sea, death, and hell, and the earth literally burns up as I interpret it, you are going to physically and spiritually go somewhere else, this earth will be gone.

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Revelation 20:13-14 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

2 Peter 3:10-12 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

and it is not the destruction of a soul, but rather the spirit's torment from being apart from God for eternity, and the terror of knowing it and being unable to change it since it is too late.

Maybe temporarily for Purgatory. But maybe you just cease to exist eternally in the Lake of Fire. I haven't decided yet.

[Gatsby]

I go by the Bible. Since God is infinitely powerful He can destroy your soul in Hell

Don't be sad,

Matthew 10:28...rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 7:13 ...broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Tell me John if God Is Love, then where does fear come into the scheme of things?

Love and fear are 2 different things and with Love there is no fear of anything, just love and more love. Love is all that Love knows. So, if you are told to fear God or fear something like the so called Devil you know instantly that what your taught to fear is not the truth, bibical or otherwise. Fear and engendering fear in someone is how people keep control of you. Are you wanting other's to control you for the rest of your life?

Regards
Gatsby

[John Goddard]

Tell me John if God Is Love, then where does fear come into the scheme of things?

Love and fear are 2 different things and with Love there is no fear of anything, just love and more love. Love is all that Love knows. So, if you are told to fear God or fear something like the so called Devil you know instantly that what your taught to fear is not the truth, bibical or otherwise. Fear and engendering fear in someone is how people keep control of you. Are you wanting other's to control you for the rest of your life?

Point being you should be afraid of God if you don't know God's love.

1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Same as if I said you don't have to be afraid of not getting paid if you do a good job for your employer. Your employer is money. But you should be afraid of not getting paid if you don't go to work.

[Gatsby]

Point being you should be afraid of God if you don't know God's love.

1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Same as if I said you don't have to be afraid of not getting paid if you do a good job for your employer. Your employer is money. But you should be afraid of not getting paid if you don't go to work.

John, you quote from 1 John 4:7-8 and this answer's the question does it not that God Is Love.

Now tell me, is it possibly to really love someone and fear them at the same time?

A wee bit common sense goes a long way!!

Let me put this another way if I can for you to show that God/Love is not to be feared.

If you have ever fallen in love with someone you will know that ecstatic feeling that gives you. You love the one who loves you and you find yourself so exhilerated that nothing can take that loving feeling away. For a while this love that you feel makes you love everyone and everything, you become blinded to any faults that anyone has, even of those who you may have criticised many times before. Your find that all the little irritants etc are swept right out of your mind, which has given itself over to love. Now this is the kind of feeling we have when we truly fall in love with someone. For mortals this feeling sadly doesn't last, hence the saying love is blind (to faults of others), well think how much more love God has for you and each one of us, a trillion times more wouldn't even come near to it. So tell my why you should fear this God, when this God feels nothing except love. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Regards
Gatsby

[John Goddard]

John, you quote from 1 John 4:7-8 and this answer's the question does it not that God Is Love.

Now tell me, is it possibly to really love someone and fear them at the same time?

A wee bit common sense goes a long way!!

Let me put this another way if I can for you to show that God/Love is not to be feared.

Point still being that Jesus is admonishing to say that if you fear what persecutors can do to you more than you fear God, and you don't do what God says for fear of persecution, then you don't know God's love to see you through it.

And point blank 1 John 4:7-8 says if you don't know God then you don't have God's love.

1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Jesus talks elsewhere to people who don't know God:

John 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

Previously to the same people:

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

And elsewhere:

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Psalms 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

So does God really love fools who despise wisdom and instruction and don't know God's love?

You know you can't cherrypick one saying GOD IS LOVE and throw that idea at everything, you need to put it in context with what the rest of the Bible says.

That is if you go by the Christian Bible like I do, if not I guess you can make up your own version.

[Gatsby]

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Who exactly is this devil? I presume you think that he is a person like you think God is a person, is that correct?

What you have quoted is symbolism and not meant to be taken litteraly. So much of thje Bible is taken litteraly and it is not meant to be it is a spiritual teaching but so much has been changed that little remains of the original teachings of Jesus. So if you want to fashion yourself like a book, feel free to do so, but dont make the mistake of thinking this will bring you closer to God because it wont. God is nearer that hands and feet. That is also a biblical quote I believe.
God is love, that basically is all we need to know and to hear God speak to us which he does through what is called intuition. Intuition is the Christ within speaking to you and keeping you one the right path but so many think that this intuition is no more than a hunch that they dismiss hence they are not very intuitive. if they listened and acted upon thier intuition then thee intuition, which is God speaking, will occur on a regular basis and litteraly be your guide.

Try and use your intuition yourself and you will see that this is so.

Regards
Gatsby

[John Goddard]

Who exactly is this devil? I presume you think that he is a person like you think God is a person, is that correct?

Not really, I think the devil is just self-will opposed to God's will.

What you have quoted is symbolism and not meant to be taken litteraly.

Oh ok, well then maybe you are wrong to take GOD IS LOVE literally.

What you really mean is that you take cherrypicked verses literally, without considering them in context with the Bible as a whole, as long as they suit your fancy, right.

Anyway explain how you interpret this symbolically:

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Psalms 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

[Gatsby]

Iam That I am.




To function in our I am that I am identity
is to function in
The Christ Mind





“I and My Father are One”
is the seed, (the idea), that will lead us into the ‘Kingdom of God’... into a consciousness of Oneness... into the ‘Christ Mind’! This seemingly egotistical idea sets in motion the real Spiritual Rebirth. By no other means can we attain the Christ Mind. (By no other means can we enter the Kingdom of God.)

The above is from another site, I put it here for your consideration.

I shall find the web address again and put the credit in another post.

Gatsby
...........................................................................................................................
No, I dont cherry pick verses John, there would be no point in that.
So am I to take it that you dont beleive that God Is Love then?

The devil is the mortal mind, the mortal mind being the symbolic tree of knowlege and Satan is the Satan of the senses. This is the symbolism of Satan. The senses are those ones we use in this mortal realm. ie the five senses. To reply to your quote Proverbs .7. I have to say it is complete rubbish. Fear and Love do not go together they are actually opposties and are once more part of the tree of knowlege which is known as duality. In duality there are opposites, this world is full of opposites, but the Tree of Life is the REAL TREE and has no opposites at all.. You quote from Psalms again is rubbish because it is talking about hating which is impossible for God, who is Love to do. Do you see how the theologians or years gone by managed to keep control of thier flock which seems to me that you are quite happy for them to do. As they still do this to this very day.

I would say that the clergy of all denomenations have carved out for themselves over eaons of time, a very wealthy way of living for themselves and keeping tight control of the populations at large.

As soon as you see opposites like God loves or God hates, know that this is not the truth your being told, rather you have been manipulated.

Regards
Gatsby

[Gatsby]

Iam That I am.




To function in our I am that I am identity
is to function in
The Christ Mind





“I and My Father are One”
is the seed, (the idea), that will lead us into the ‘Kingdom of God’... into a consciousness of Oneness... into the ‘Christ Mind’! This seemingly egotistical idea sets in motion the real Spiritual Rebirth. By no other means can we attain the Christ Mind. (By no other means can we enter the Kingdom of God.)

www.the christmind.org

[John Goddard]

No, I dont cherry pick verses John, there would be no point in that.
So am I to take it that you dont beleive that God Is Love then?

God is Love to people who know God, I'll post it again:

Point still being that Jesus is admonishing to say that if you fear what persecutors can do to you more than you fear God, and you don't do what God says for fear of persecution, then you don't know God's love to see you through it.

And point blank 1 John 4:7-8 says if you don't know God then you don't have God's love.

1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

To reply to your quote Proverbs .7. I have to say it is complete rubbish.

Cherrypicking verses from the Bible means you pick what you want and discard the rest, as you are doing here by discarding Psalms when it says God hates workers of iniquity. The NT quotes from Psalms, so you are saying that the NT is rubbish too, whether you realize it or not.

Therefore any verses you offer from the entire Bible are cherrypicked as suited to your own ideas. You would have a better message if you just forget about using the Bible and argue on a logical basis as to why God should love everyone no matter what.