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The right to die?

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  • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
    A bizarre form of assisted suicide.

    Carry's technically correct - you can't volunteer to be murdered. You can volunteer to be killed, obviously. Regardless, he's still wrong that the connection is nonsense.
    You misunderstood. The connection is there but no one is suggesting we legalize murder. Asking should we legalize murder is nonsensical.
    I'm not here anymore.

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    • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
      The key word here is highlighted above. I do not trust this to remain the case and even most is not good enough.
      As I said before "it could be abused" isn't a useful objection since it applies to literally everything. By that reasoning, we shouldn't allow any church to be 501(c) because it could be abused.

      Slippery slope is still a fallacy.
      I'm not here anymore.

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      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        The "killing vs murder" distinction is what I had in mind when I mentioned suicide by cop... Even in a case where somebody was forcing the cop into shooting, some can scream "he murdered" the victim, because he (the cop) had the option of "shooting the gun out of the bad guy's hand" or whatever.
        Where murder is unjustified killing, people can scream all they want without it being true.
        I'm not here anymore.

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        • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
          Public policy driven by exceptions in invariably bad public policy.

          Fortunately for the millions who will survive cancer this wasn't law in the 70's and 80's when the first real strides in effective treatment were being made.


          It's still black/white thinking that stays very much in the tunnel - pain can be managed; symptoms alleviated and the dying given both comfort and dignity minus deliberately killing anyone.
          Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
          I agree. I do not have any great fear of being put to death, but I would prefer to wait for it to happen naturally.
          This brings to mind John Reece's somewhat recent surgeries where, by his own admission, best case scenario was for him to die on the operating table.

          Yes, we can do a lot of things to manage pain. Dignity and comfort are pretty questionable when you're to the point where someone has to clean up your messes because you have zero control and can't even get to a bathroom. On the contrary, one of the arguments in favor of euthanasia is allowing people to die before they (inevitably) lose their dignity.

          These cases aren't exceptions. Stage IV cancer and ALS are real things. There's a reason Medicare and insurance provides for hospice care. Terminal with less than six months to live isn't an exception. It's life.
          I'm not here anymore.

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          • Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
            He asked about what's wrong with suicide more generally, and I answered in that context.

            That said, Tassman also seems to be quite fine with going down the slippery slope that I pointed out. You may be arguing for letting people with very painful terminal illnesses shorten their suffering, but he seems to want a rather broader euthanasia policy.

            I've also previously mentioned double effect and palliative sedation, in which the doctor administers a potentially fatal dose of painkillers with the intention of reliving pain, but also aware that it might be a fatal dose.
            I think it's a mistake to conflate suicidal depression with end-of-life "let me end it on my terms" no matter who makes it.

            Palliative sedation is a viable solution, but I question why a fatal dose would be impermissible in lieu of continued sedation. The concept of double effect is interesting but fairly irrelevant for me. It doesn't interact at all with how I determine permissible actions.
            I'm not here anymore.

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            • Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
              I've been arguing against negative liberty as the central principle of government
              Worth it's own thread, I suspect. I'd be up for it.
              I'm not here anymore.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sea of red View Post
                Your sensitivity to generalizations you have no problem dishing out is just priceless.
                Sensitivity? Dude, you gotsta stop before I squirt milk out of my nose!!
                That's what
                - She

                Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                - Stephen R. Donaldson

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                • Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                  Where murder is unjustified killing, people can scream all they want without it being true.
                  The example was not necessarily unjustified killing, but people will still scream, particularly when it's a white cop and a black victim.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                  • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                    Sensitivity? Dude, you gotsta stop before I squirt milk out of my nose!!
                    Milk? I figured you for an ice cold beer this time of day.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sea of red View Post
                      Milk? I figured you for an ice cold beer this time of day.
                      Shut the hell up dude. Seriously.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                        Shut the hell up dude. Seriously.
                        Why don't you get a grip on yourself already.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                          As I said before "it could be abused" isn't a useful objection since it applies to literally everything. . . .
                          When it comes to the, possibly unlikely non voluntary case (I don't know any way to determine this), saving of an innocent life I find it a very useful objection.
                          Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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                          • Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                            The cop reasonably defends against an attack. The attacker knows and plans on the eventual outcome. It's 100% voluntary on the part of the attacker.




                            Uh, no. Suicide by definition being voluntary vs murder by definition being involuntary. That it's not always easy to determine which category something falls under doesn't stop it from being an equivocation.
                            Opps, sorry, we switched gears on you (I thnk CBW did - I could have misunderstood). You're right, of course, about suicide proper - but the label assisted suicide has been a euphemism for euthanasia. I think that was where she was going with it. I didn't make it any clearer.
                            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                            My Personal Blog

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                            • Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                              This brings to mind John Reece's somewhat recent surgeries where, by his own admission, best case scenario was for him to die on the operating table.

                              Yes, we can do a lot of things to manage pain. Dignity and comfort are pretty questionable when you're to the point where someone has to clean up your messes because you have zero control and can't even get to a bathroom. On the contrary, one of the arguments in favor of euthanasia is allowing people to die before they (inevitably) lose their dignity.

                              These cases aren't exceptions. Stage IV cancer and ALS are real things. There's a reason Medicare and insurance provides for hospice care. Terminal with less than six months to live isn't an exception. It's life.
                              The statistics do not bear this out - it is the exception, not the rule,
                              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                              My Personal Blog

                              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                              Quill Sword

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                              • Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                                Worth it's own thread, I suspect. I'd be up for it.
                                OK, done.

                                http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...and-Government
                                Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

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