Justified Killing - Progressive vs Conservative morality

[Christianbookworm]

And your view of our position "we only kill as a very last option" is sick --- nobody here has expressed anything like "their life doesn't matter" and nobody is claiming "it's fine to kill them".

I gues we can only tell people to stop assaulting people.

[guacamole]

Life in prison is not a death sentence. You can be released from prison.

Then, if you are released, it is, by definition, not life in prison.

[Carrikature]

And in every single class I've ever taught or been a part of or knew about, it wasn't about KILLING the assailant - it was about stopping him. If he (the assailant) got dead in the process, that's the sad truth.

You've said this a lot, but it seems like you might have been the exception more than the rule. Which is sad.

[Carrikature]

Life in prison is not a death sentence. You can be released from prison.

The missing piece is "without the possibility of parole", which is a thing. I think that's what guac meant.

[rogue06]

If you're talking about getting a bloody nose or a black eye I tend to agree, but what if you're subject to being maimed, crippled, blinded or suffer brain damage as a result of the beating? Or a loved one is also at risk of a similar beating and maybe being raped after the person(s) is/are done with you? Would you refuse to protect yourself from a predator who is willing to do this sort of harm and very likely has before or will do so in the future?

Seems to be something SL would rather not answer

[mossrose]

Seems to be something SL would rather not answer

He's ignoring me, too.

[rogue06]

How often are people you know beaten up???

Only known a few. But to claim that you don't know anyone who is ever been beaten up is incredibly hard to believe, which is why I called B.S. on it.

[Jedidiah]

If you're talking about getting a bloody nose or a black eye I tend to agree, but what if you're subject to being maimed, crippled, blinded or suffer brain damage as a result of the beating? Or a loved one is also at risk of a similar beating and maybe being raped after the person(s) is/are done with you? Would you refuse to protect yourself from a predator who is willing to do this sort of harm and very likely has before or will do so in the future?

My question is, if someone is threatening to beat you, how do you know it will stop with a black eye. No way to know until it is over.

[Cow Poke]

My question is, if someone is threatening to beat you, how do you know it will stop with a black eye. No way to know until it is over.

And, if you're an armed police officer (the context from which some of this came) how do you know he won't grab your gun and kill you?

[Sparko]

And, if you're an armed police officer (the context from which some of this came) how do you know he won't grab your gun and kill you?

come on Cow Poke. You have to trust the criminal. If he tells you he is just gonna smash your face in, you should believe him.

[Christianbookworm]

come on Cow Poke. You have to trust the criminal. If he tells you he is just gonna smash your face in, you should believe him.

Criminal! No crime committing! And repeat three times.

[rogue06]

Criminal! No crime committing! And repeat three times.

That reminds me of the following exchange in the movie Demolition Man:

Squad Leader: Simon Phoenix! Lie down with your hands behind your back.

Simon Phoenix: What's this? Six of you. Such nice, tidy uniforms. Oh I'm so scared! [pause as police look confused] What you guys don't have sarcasm anymore?

Squad Leader: Maniac is responding with a scornful remark.

Voice over radio: Approach and repeat ultimatum in an even firmer tone of voice. Add the words: "or else. "

Squad Leader:Lie down on the ground... or else!

[police officers get butchered by Simon Phoenix as others officers watch from HQ]

Erwin: [commenting on massacre of fellow officers] We're police officers! We're not trained to handle this kind of violence!

[Roy]

The missing piece is "without the possibility of parole", which is a thing. I think that's what guac meant.

It doesn't matter. Being sentenced to life in prison without parole is not the same as being sentenced to death, since the former can be subsequently reviewed and overturned - and the inmate may have a chance to work towards this - and the latter cannot.

You can release some-one wrongly convicted to life in prison. You cannot resurrect someone wrongly executed.

[Christianbookworm]

It doesn't matter. Being sentenced to life in prison without parole is not the same as being sentenced to death, since the former can be subsequently reviewed and overturned - and the inmate may have a chance to work towards this - and the latter cannot.

You can release some-one wrongly convicted to life in prison. You cannot resurrect someone wrongly executed.

Not if he dies from old age first.

[guacamole]

It doesn't matter. Being sentenced to life in prison without parole is not the same as being sentenced to death, since the former can be subsequently reviewed and overturned - and the inmate may have a chance to work towards this - and the latter cannot.

You can release some-one wrongly convicted to life in prison. You cannot resurrect someone wrongly executed.

Wrongful execution is beside the point. Amman who dies from old age after life in prison functionally suffered the death sentence. The point is that some people are fine with a death sentence as long as we change the agency.

In addition, it still supports my main point that most people are fundamentally okay with us killing some people, except for the logically farcical part where we disagree about whom we should kill and what "self defense" means.