Looking at Genesis..

[JCA]

After much discussion with the wife, we have decided we are going to go through the whole Bible again from the beginning, together, and record what we 'see'.

In light of that, I thought I would share the first few things we have already gone through, and the conclusions therein. As my wife doesn't participate in online communities (even my own), or even get online at all very much, I am making the conclusions mine, so as not to have anyone bring her into it directly, or have me fall upon 'the higher power' gambit.

Hopefully, I'm putting this in the right place.. as it may, or may not turn our to be an Orthodox study, as we are using nothing but the KJV and E-Swords Strongs. We are not relying upon any other outside source for this interpretation.. as I said, it is a simple study of 'what does this mean to US as we read it'. We have both read it before, and so have a little more understanding of some of the references made incontext with the rest of the Bible itself.. this is our first actual time discussing it line by line together.


So, after making it sound like some big thing ( ), please don't be upset about the simplicity of it.. and so far it is only the first 5 lines we have actually sat down and talked about.. but I feel they are very important lines. Do feel free to comment on what you see..


GENESIS 1: 1-5 ~ A typical understanding from reading.

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


In the beginning.. this is a very powerful statement when one talks about God. "The Beginning".. what actually began? If God is eternal (as we understand it) then it obviously isn't God that 'began'.. so it must have been something else. I personally see this as the beginning of time.. the point at which God starts linear time as we believe it to be.

God created the Heaven and the earth.. This means to me, in context with the first verse, that God started time, created the Heaven(s) and the 'earth' - which could be understood as 'firm land'. So God created space, time and matter.

What is very important to notice at this point is, there is NO time reference given to this creation. This creation of Heaven and earth could have taken ANY amount of time according to this part of the text.

Now, this 'earth' was without form, and void.. this basically means it was a lump of rock, with water on it, that wasn't really doing much. It was desert like.. and even the 'seas' where probably a thick goop. There was no light.. all was dark.

Then the mind/spirit of God (which becomes important later, as I view this as the first real act of Gods WORD) moves across the 'deep' (main sea, or waters).. and what happens now is also interesting..


3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.


Now, this could mean that suns where made etc.. or could just mean that God wanted it to be 'brighter'.. either way, things where not as dark as they where before.

However, what is interesting about this line is this.. God says.. now in the line before we are told that it is Gods Spirit/Mind that is actually 'there'.. I see this not so much as a statement, but as a partial command.. which the Spirit (WORD) then does.

Onward..


4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.


God thought this 'light' was a good thing.. and when seeing such decided that because it was a good thing, it should be divided from the 'dark'.

PLEASE do continue to notice that up until this point, there is no mention of timeframes.. and until the darkness and light get split, in my opinion, there is no 'day'.. there is no way to tell how long all this took in 'human' terms.


5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.


NOW, there is a day.. when God split the darkness and the light, and 'named' them, THAT began the 'First Day'... everything up until that point could have taken anywhere form less than a nano-second to billions of human years.

You see, Genesis, as far as I see it in this first chapter, isn't about discussing the major physical creation of the Universe et al. Sure, it explains it partially, but as it isn't really the focus of scripture, requires no in depth understanding when it comes to Salvation.

ALL of the first part of creation is only mentioned to A) Show Gods glory and power, and B) lead up to the next part.. which does become important. This is the first day.. now created due to the splitting of darkenss and light, and from here, we zoom into creation a little more closely..


And I'll continue from there in the near future..


IN Love and Peace

JCA

[The Laughing Man]

It's awesome that you and your wife are doing this together.

[JCA]

Thanks Jinx.. yeah.. I think it's a good thing.. it can only bring us closer together, and align our understanding of God. Plus, it has another edge to it.. it will allow us to see where the typical 'stumbling stones' in our own interpretations are, before we go looking elsewhere for answers..

Anyway, there is a continuation of this..


So, let us continue..

Lines 6-12

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.


So, at this point, we have God who has created Time, Space and Matter (through whatever process He so desired), taking an unknown amount of time to do so. Once this was done, He turned His attention to our planet (or, as may be preferred, our planet was in His 'plan').

Now, God has already moved across the planet, and has produced the 'light' and created the 'Day' and 'Night', and now works on 'shaping' the World.


6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

In line 6, we see that God is letting the land masses form, rising up to part the seas..


7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

In line 7, it gets a little difficult to understand exactly what is going on, but after looking at Strongs, and the context of the verse before, it states to me that this is possibly, and probably still talking about the World itself. The 'firmament' being spoken of, is the 'expanse' around the planet we call the atmosphere, or sky. This was also used to split the waters between that which on the land, and above it. This being the case, it is possible, and probable that the 'waters' are the seas, AND the cloud cover that is being created by this shaping of the Earth..

But it could also mean the expanse of the land trapped water below it, as well as the seas that are around it, and in cases above this trapped water. Strangely, not being able to decide exactly what we are being told here, doesn't become an issue for us/me anyway.. in other words, it doesn't strike us as overly spiritually important to find the correct understanding of this line.


8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Line 8 seems to denote that the 'firmnament' means the "Heaven(s)" - the Sky etc.. because of the use of 'firmament' in a later passage, but this seems out of context. I believe the important word in this line is "Heaven".. To me, this doesn't depict a spiritual heaven, but more of a physical one.. God was making the Earth a dwelling place for His Spirit.. and wherever God is, or His Spirit is, is indeed 'heavenly'..

So I see at this point, that God is reshaping the Earth.. rising the land and splitting the oceans, and preparing it as a dwelling for Himself (and His plan). In my eyes, the text hasn't left the Earth yet! And hasn't really spoken about the "heaven" meaning the stars and space etc.

Once this was done, the second day commenced.


9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

Line 9 is sort of a summerization of what just happened.. God has position the 'waters' as He saw fit, and caused the land to rise.. Now it is being 'named'.. The 'under heaven' part, to me, only means that which is currently under the gaze of God, and in a place He is furnishing as a dwelling for His Spirit. In other words, God is looking at the Earth, a place of paradise (heaven) he is creating.. and so what wwill be 'under' this 'heaven' (the place where God will dwell - under His feet) will be land and sea.


10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

Line 10 sees where God names them, and makes it so. The land is risen, the waters have been seperated, and now we have Earth and Seas. And it was good.. this Heaven is coming along nicely.


11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

In Lines 11 & 12, we see that God is starting to poulate the Earth (land) with plants etc. Note that once again, God says let it be, and then it is made to be so.. once again, this is a creation of the WORD, doing Gods bidding.

And so we come to the end of the second day. The Earth is populated by plants, the land and seas are set and named, and all is looking good.. Gods creation of paradise continues the next (third) day.. and in the next post.


What is interesting here, and what is argued all over the place, is this meaning of the word "Day". Up until this point, there has been no real mention of God creating the Sun.. only light.. which He then split from the 'darkness' to provide 'night and day'. However, we presume that night and day have something to do with the position of the Sun around our planet.. and so, it is possible to conclude at this point, that the night and day could be of any particular length God requires to do His work of creation. There is no Sun and Moon as we know it, and so this 24 hour length of time cannot be fully attributed to these first 2 'days'. All we know is that is was a specific length of time, in which light and darkness where involved.

At least, that's what I have up to this point.


IN Love and Peace

TonyB

[Vocker]

"We are not relying upon any other outside source for this interpretation.. as I said, it is a simple study of 'what does this mean to US as we read it'."

JCA, is there a reason a "simple" study methodology has been selected? I ask because in my experience phrases like "'what does this mean to US" is often cause for concern. Granted, you both seem to have background in the issue, but warning lights go off when I am confronted by that phrase. The question IMO should never be what it means to us, but what did the author mean? Perhaps I'm just being a little paranoid....

[EdJones]

[Jedidiah]

JCA,

GENESIS 1: 1-5 ~ A typical understanding from reading.

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

This is indeed a meaningful statement. There was a beginning and God was there making the beginning.

This first verse says a great deal, including the fact that in the beginning God created all the universe (the heavens and the earth). I would venture to put forth the idea that the "heavens and the earth" included the heavens and thus the stars.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Verse two takes off from the described creation event. At this point the heavens and the earth exist, but the earth is not in the condition we are familiar with.

It would be possible to see verse one as a summary of all of creation, except verse two seems clearly to be building upon the revelation of the creation in verse one.

If one wants to enter a timeframe here it would be essential to note that the earth already exists and is described as "without form, and void." The maximum point in time would be about 4.5 billion years ago. In any case I see no way to read the description given in verse one to exclude the sun and stars. Thus the giving of light must need exclude the creation of these.

beeman

[Jin-Roh]

I think it's cool that you're doing this JCA. I share some of Vocker's concerns though. In my very humble oponion, there's no such thing as a "simple" Bible study once you get past the "baby milk" level of understanding. Personally, I'd get all the good study helps I could find I had the money.

But either way, for taking the time to do this.