All Scripture is....

[headheart]

..given by inspiration God... ( from 2 Timothy 3:14-17 )

When I got my first little old bible, I was nineteen. It was a Living (paraphrase) and it did not seem to be very inspired. Going to the building in which the church gathers, I discovered that there were many, many bibles. I was told that the New American Standard was a good one for a serious study of the bible, so I bought one. I also discovered that the older believers read the holy bible, called 'The King James Version' and seeing as most of the sermons were preached with reference to it, it made perfect sense that I should have one to follow. In fact most of the spiritual songs, were drawn from it, and from what I know now, it is a most valuable one to have for it connects to a massive volume of ancient litreture. (is this still one stanza?)

Not really being that interested in the Old Testament, and with not much else to do, I spent my bacheolor years pouring over the New Testament. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts and so on right through to Revelation/Apocalypse. Along this journey I encountered St. Paul's minor epistles, and in particular the book of Colossians. I am not sure why, but it somehow seemed to be the most inspired book of the collection, at that time. I read it over and over and over and over again. I just never seemed to get to the end of it's profundity. While my friends were reading the latest theologian, and studying commentaries, I just kept on walking that stretch of street. Colossians was fascinating, for up until then I had read everything I could and found no interest in the bible. It seemed to have a continual flow of inspiration.

Eventually I read the whole Bible, but not before getting hooked on Galatians, and then wanting so much to know Jesus better, I began reading John's gospel. During my pilgrimage from Genesis to Revelation, two books assualted my heart and first was Jeremiah, but finally the magnum opus, was 'Isaiah'. I felt like I had entered the room of a poet+philosopher+psychiatrist all rolled into one. I experienced deep healing in my mind and my heart. Yet, strangely, I keep on going back to John and think that I shall remain there, until the Lord takes me home. I figured that if I was going to read the bible, I should at least pick a book and get into it wholeheartedly.

This is sounding like a confession and I guess in a sense it is. I think I might have studied James this way, or even Jude, or Revelation, but for now it is there that I have my thirst and hunger fully satisfied. There is one other that I find most fascinating and it would have been a valuable connection for me if I had been born a Jew.

Hebrews, or the letter to Hebrews, really is a most fascinating little book. It is very cohesive, it is very powerful and it rescues the heart of the Jew unto the Saviour with swiftness beyond description, it hangs most foul doctrines and inspires some of the most profound commitment. In a tiny booklet 'Christ Supreme', I read that the author, had been studying it for 50 years and still not come to the fountain of it. Now that is something.

In short, which of the New Testament books has grabbed your heart ?
If another book has grabbed your heart, either in the Old Testament or another, like say Enoch, or one of the Gnostic writings, or another writer, would you please share a bit ?
Even it is the Gita, or the Dharma, or other...even fiction....which book for you is the most inspired one that you read...and obsess about...??

HH.

[RBerman]

What a great topic! I think we ought to stick to "Bible appreciation" since this is Systematic Theology forum. I had a great time reading through the gospel of John last month and writing a thread about it here, though I was unable to get anyone else interested in discussing it. I have several life-projects for Bible study, one of which is to be able to summarize or even outline from memory every book of the Bible. I have learned plenty of individual Bible verses and even passages by heart, but as an adult I've found that my understanding of the the larger themes and broader arguments of Scripture needs some bolstering.

I love Romans' detailed explanation of the issues of sin and salvation revolving around Christ. Hebrews is a marvelous look at how Christ fits into the OT sacrificial system, particularly addressing the concept of "rest" after the wilderness and the dominion theme of Psalm 110. Speaking of the Psalms, they say so much about what it's like to focus one's heart on God in good times and bad. That's enough for now; perhaps more later if no one else has any other comments first.

[franktalk]

Genesis got me hooked. I came to faith from science. My study of reality forced me to look outside of man for answers. I could not see any technical errors in Genesis. I knew in my heart that no one in 1650 BC could do that. This to me was the first step to faith. Next was Daniel which showed the incredible accuracy of prophesy. But the book which I love is Job. It has it all.

An outline of the entire Bible

Job 19:23 Oh that my words were now written! oh that they were printed in a book!
Job 19:24 That they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock forever!
Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Job 19:27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.
Job 19:28 But ye should say, Why persecute we him, seeing the root of the matter is found in me?
Job 19:29 Be ye afraid of the sword: for wrath bringeth the punishments of the sword, that ye may know there is a judgment.

Although in general I don't like layered communication in scripture in Job I make the exception.

Job 4:18 Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly:
Job 4:19 How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth?

Here I think Satan is speaking through Job's "friends"

My other favorite is 2Peter because it predicts the rise of science and details the reason why.

[headheart]

What a great topic! I think we ought to stick to "Bible appreciation" since this is Systematic Theology forum.

When I was in South Africa, I got to attend some conferences at Kalk Bay Bible Institute. There was I, 'musician-bible student' sitting with Pastors from all over the Peninsula. It is inevitable that we are going to do this. Talk about what books in the Bible we love!

I had a great time reading through the gospel of John last month and writing a thread about it here, though I was unable to get anyone else interested in discussing it.

Oh, that is a pity. So many questions that my heart has ached with for years, have been answered there like nowhere else. Great cerebral gymnatics for airheads.

I have several life-projects for Bible study, one of which is to be able to summarize or even outline from memory every book of the Bible. I have learned plenty of individual Bible verses and even passages by heart, but as an adult I've found that my understanding of the the larger themes and broader arguments of Scripture needs some bolstering.

Yes. I had a great little book that did that, each book has the title...Jesus is (.....) and so on. It was given to me by a very sweet old man, after I had been saved a year or so. His name was Mr. Shaw, for the AOG in Harfield Road, Claremont. South Africa. I wonder when I lost it..it still frustrates me immensly that I was so careless.

I love Romans' detailed explanation of the issues of sin and salvation revolving around Christ.

A lifetime study, for anyone who wants to really come to grips with the life in Christ. It is a masterpiece! I love the way he layers his thoughts. When I was reading AW Pink, I kept thinking how similar they are. Paul still has a style that is mind blowing!!!!!

Hebrews is a marvelous look at how Christ fits into the OT sacrificial system, particularly addressing the concept of "rest" after the wilderness and the dominion theme of Psalm 110. Speaking of the Psalms, they say so much about what it's like to focus one's heart on God in good times and bad. That's enough for now; perhaps more later if no one else has any other comments first.

Whew Hebrews, is colossal! I mean if being swallowed by a big fish was frightening it is one book that will take you to pieces and put you back again. If you have the guts to stay the distance.

HH.

[headheart]

Genesis got me hooked. I came to faith from science. My study of reality forced me to look outside of man for answers. I could not see any technical errors in Genesis. I knew in my heart that no one in 1650 BC could do that.
.

Yes, this book is so much about beginnings. I read it very late in life and it blew me away. It is foundational to our understanding of the nature of God.

This to me was the first step to faith. Next was Daniel which showed the incredible accuracy of prophesy. But the book which I love is Job. It has it all.

An outline of the entire Bible

Job 19:23 Oh that my words were now written! oh that they were printed in a book!
Job 19:24 That they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock forever!
Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Job 19:27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.
Job 19:28 But ye should say, Why persecute we him, seeing the root of the matter is found in me?
Job 19:29 Be ye afraid of the sword: for wrath bringeth the punishments of the sword, that ye may know there is a judgment.

Although in general I don't like layered communication in scripture in Job I make the exception.

Job 4:18 Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly:
Job 4:19 How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth?

Here I think Satan is speaking through Job's "friends"
.

Oh my goodness me, you are right. Job is also one of my favourites, just kinda forgot how precious it is. The whole core of understanding God's dealings with us, is there. Hope for the helpless, for the sufferer.

My other favorite is 2Peter because it predicts the rise of science and details the reason why.

I would have gone down Peter more, but I used up all my time in Peter in my twenties and thirties. Plus Thessalonians and Jude. But you are right, it is amazing how the answers are sitting there just waiting for one to take time out to really reflect and meditate upon.

I am glad that His word found me, as Peter says to Jesus, 'to whom shall we go for YOU have the words of eternal life.'

HH.

[headheart]

Please excuse my exhuberance, I never expected that there would be a response to my inflated thread. I hope that others will come.

HH.

[RBerman]

Headheart, tell me about Colossians. What is it in particular that strikes you about it?

[franktalk]

To me it appeared that Peter in 2Peter was angry. It looks to me that he saw the future and it really set him off.

Even 2Peter 3:16 warns us not to assume we read Paul correctly. But that is exactly what happened thru history. Issues about doctrine I try and not get too wrapped up in the meaning of scripture. I think that faith means we wait to be told what this unclear scripture means. It is the opposite of faith to tell others that (I) know the true meaning. I share my views but that is what they are, my views, not the truth.

[RBerman]

Franktalk, do you realize that your statement is inherently self-defeating? You can't say "My view are just my views; faith means that we can't know the true meaning of Scripture." That very statement is a statement about what you believe to be actually true, beyond simply "your view." At any rate, I believe that some things in Scripture are hard to understand, and we'll be debating them until Christ returns. Other things are quite clear, and we shouldn't apologize for saying, "This Scripture means..."

[franktalk]

Franktalk, do you realize that your statement is inherently self-defeating? You can't say "My view are just my views; faith means that we can't know the true meaning of Scripture." That very statement is a statement about what you believe to be actually true, beyond simply "your view." At any rate, I believe that some things in Scripture are hard to understand, and we'll be debating them until Christ returns. Other things are quite clear, and we shouldn't apologize for saying, "This Scripture means..."

There are of course many things in scripture that are clear. And there are many things which are unclear. Since I am not an idiot I think I might be able to sort through some of them.

For example. In scripture we are told that a Bishop is to be married and have kids which demonstrate good parenting skills. But a billion people on this world take it to mean don't marry at all and don't have kids. So what is clear to some is black to others. I could go on and on but the point I was making was I am not a spiritually driven teacher of scripture. So I try to bring people to scripture but try and stay away from telling anyone I know it all.

As to faith, I have faith that those scriptures that God wants to make clear to me He will.

[headheart]

Headheart, tell me about Colossians. What is it in particular that strikes you about it?

RBerman, thank you for asking me this question. I had a most fruitful time thinking about your question. Should I spoil my reverie and answer it ?

Well back in '76 I was very into some form of Mysticism.
Being an artist, poet, musician, ...basically very creative and not really very cerebral, I spent most of my time drinking in cosmic rays from the world around me. I guess I was hyper-sensitive, as is the malady for those who are in the 'craft'.

During my childhood, I actually saw halos around my adopted parents head. I suppose now that God allowed me to see this to comfort my frightened heart. Still I had always leaned towards the arts and crafts and drank deep on poetry, but more the lyrics of songs. Whereas others were bopping to CCR, I was listening to Shawn Phillips, Rodriguez, Stephen Stills, America, and getting very cosmic.

Eventually I was so into the whole Cosmic Consiousness idea that I even began to worship Satan, (though I called him by a different name)...the Great Spirit..etc. I went from impersonal to personal god idea, very quickly, having had numerous very real spiritual experiences. Out of this and what I wrote above, it was incidental that I should be so attracted to Colossians, which really does address that in a healing way.

Unbeknown to me the letter had been addressed to something that would only become a problem after it had been penned, I recall about a century later, when the problem of Gnosticism erupted. So it was that I really embraced Jesus through Colossians, more likely the other way round.

As I said, thanks for the question. My journey into the Gospel of Jesus Christ attributed to John, has certainly been a similar thirst, almost as if my personality desires the correction and on the other side as if I identify best there. I spent years in Revelation, but eventually slipped away from it, after sussing out the difficult passages and then wrestling with them until my mind was set at ease. Not a place I would hurry back to, but it certainly whipped my hide until I was settled out of reach of the enemy.

Peace,
HH.

[headheart]

So I try to bring people to scripture but try and stay away from telling anyone I know it all.

I like the way you think.
There are certainly some really clumsy interpretation of simple text.
I recall listening to Dr. Robert Morey explain that he found a good course in Hermenuetics often cleared up a lot of erroneous thinking. Yet one has to realize that some people's ability to grasp things is not only inhibited by sin, but also by a poor education. In the end poor comprehension skills will be the achiles heel of most everyone, but God has a way of teaching even the simple minded. What a wonderful and supreme God to serve.

As to faith, I have faith that those scriptures that God wants to make clear to me He will.

Right on.
I have also discovered that often when false teachers have been using a key passage to push their idea, the very next verse either side is the one which up and smacks them in the gob. It is as if they have become so focussed on one verse that they have forgotten that no one reads a letter like that.

Too much,

HH.

[RBerman]

Thanks for your testimony, Headheart!

[headheart]

Thanks for your testimony, Headheart!

Sorry that was rather excessive.
I could have just said, Colossians matched my metaphysical state at the time.
The passage that got me was the one about the Godhead dwelling in Christ bodily.....
Actually there is so much in that tiny book.

Nuff sed.
HH.

[franktalk]

HH,

I love the Word of God and know it is written for many reasons. Like when it talked about the Assyrians over 3500 years ago. People of faith assumed that there were Assyrians and their cities did exist. But people of this world could not find them. Many people over a wast amount of time called the Bible a fable because of the lack of evidence. But a man from Britain came to Iraq and found the lost cities. But then we have to ask ourselves why after all that time with the location of the cities pretty much described in scripture did it take so long to find those lost cities. But now we step back and see a different picture. Early in the 1860's the cities were discovered. At the same time Darwin published his book telling everyone about how life is an accident. The world could have ignored Darwin and the discovery of the cities could have kindled a massive resurgence of Christianity. As we all know the world chose naturalism over the creation and God was pushed into a corner (in man's view). So as I see it the cities were lost and then found in God's time for His reason. We were given a choice, many still choose the wrong way. Then we have the Dry Bones prophesy which clearly came about in 1947. But many deny this and say it all happened before in the past. In fact some deny any future prophesy and say that everything has come already. Satan and his army have done almost what they have wanted. But almost won't save Satan and his army. God will have His day and it will happen just as He said it would. All of the deniers and mockers will not change what has already happened in God's eyes. So when I see moral decay and the outlawing of God by man I know that some will come to Him by grace no matter what weird doctrine or worldly belief is thrown in front of man. It is so sad to see what goes on around me. It is possible that I have seen with my own eyes people who will be in the wine press of God.