All Scripture is....

[franktalk]

I see that



How do the following passages harmonize with your 'own' view of prophecy, and Scripture in general ?

'But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.'
1 John 2:27

'Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. '
2 Peter 1:20-21

Sincerely,
HH.

Actually I have given this a lot of thought. In Romans I think the case is made that we all have a built in quest for the answer to the question "Who made the creation?" Then the main guide for us is we did not make it and it did not make itself. This leaves God. I think this is built into us by God. But it can be overridden by the world if one allows the world to rule them. The path made by pride and new age thinking is very strong and I was on that path for most of my life. Only by the grace of God I have come to know the truth. But that truth granted to me was limited as it is in most people. The truth granted the Apostles seems to be unlimited but the interpretation of what they said is not granted to us. It may be that some know it but I see all of us searching for the truth which I think is what we are supposed to do. I think a test of our pride comes into play with scripture. I have always asked myself why is it that two good Christians can have such diverse interpretations of scripture. My answer has always been to blame the limits of the flesh. The Holy Ghost made no errors so any errors must be ours. If we have not been granted the correct interpretation then so be it. I can wait until it is revealed to me. Now I have strong personal views on scripture but I know I am in a sea of opinions. How can I say I am correct? I cannot.

to sum up this view is 2Peter

2Pe 3:15 And account that the long suffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

I tend to think we are all are unlearned and unstable.

[phase]

Am currently reading Romans and seem to get saturated after a chapter or two. So, keep stepping back for a day or two then go back to where i started from and reread. Am inclined to think that i'm suppose to be in Romans at this time. Not the best of study habits, but it seems to digest better this way. On the rereads there seems to be a degree of clarity that wasn't there before. This old bible has got more usage in the past month than it has in the past 10 years.

[headheart]

Am currently reading Romans and seem to get saturated after a chapter or two. So, keep stepping back for a day or two then go back to where i started from and reread. Am inclined to think that i'm suppose to be in Romans at this time. Not the best of study habits, but it seems to digest better this way. On the rereads there seems to be a degree of clarity that wasn't there before. This old bible has got more usage in the past month than it has in the past 10 years.

I have had a similar experience with Romans.
Read it, put it down, read it again. It always ends up being a time of great enlightenment. St. Paul was certainly a wonderful thinker, and does in a cute way remind me of A.W. Pink (not in content, but in structure).

HH.

[headheart]

I tend to think we are all are unlearned and unstable.

Hi franktalk,

Thanks for your insightful post.

1 Peter 2:1-3
2 Timothy 3:12-17
Deuteronomy 29:29

HH.

[franktalk]

Hi franktalk,

Thanks for your insightful post.

1 Peter 2:1-3
2 Timothy 3:12-17
Deuteronomy 29:29

HH.

When I read scripture I find something in the words and that something enters into me. Now each time I read the same scripture for the hundredth time I find something new. Because of this I know that I will never truly know the complete meaning of any verse. I accept this as normal and I see that I share this scriptural environment with many people.

So with this in mind I am respectful of many diverse interpretations of the verses but hold on to my own. But again I freely admit that I may have it wrong. But this does not mean that I will latch onto another's interpretation. Not because these people are not sincere or not filled with the Holy Ghost but because they are flesh as I am.

Let me describe this another way. The Israelites came out of Egypt and were guided by God. A column of smoke and of fire. But still they fell and worshipped idols. I ask myself how could that happen? To see a manifestation of God day after day and then fall? We have the benefit of the Holy Ghost that has been given us for the asking. How weak would we be if we did not have that helper? I don't think that I am much different than the Israelites in the desert. The strong pull of the world on the flesh has not gone away. So we as Christians are to live on this world but develop our spirit. How much of our behavior is spirit driven and how much by the world? Now extend that. How much of our interpretation of scripture is spirit driven and how much comes from the world?

Having said all of that I know that God designed us and also guided the scripture. So the amount of truth and proper doctrine must be present. But I feel that the main points are clear but the detail for some reason is not given us. This understanding is what guides me. Now others I have seen take the other path. They feel that the Holy Ghost tells them the correct interpretation of scripture and all others come from Satan. I think this is a test of pride built into scripture. I see the message of false pride over and over in the stories in scripture. I see that it would not be out of character for God to also use the interpretation of scripture to show us the same behavior in ourselves.

[headheart]

When I read scripture I find something in the words and that something enters into me. Now each time I read the same scripture for the hundredth time I find something new. Because of this I know that I will never truly know the complete meaning of any verse. I accept this as normal and I see that I share this scriptural environment with many people.

So with this in mind I am respectful of many diverse interpretations of the verses but hold on to my own. But again I freely admit that I may have it wrong. But this does not mean that I will latch onto another's interpretation. Not because these people are not sincere or not filled with the Holy Ghost but because they are flesh as I am.

Let me describe this another way. The Israelites came out of Egypt and were guided by God. A column of smoke and of fire. But still they fell and worshipped idols. I ask myself how could that happen? To see a manifestation of God day after day and then fall? We have the benefit of the Holy Ghost that has been given us for the asking. How weak would we be if we did not have that helper? I don't think that I am much different than the Israelites in the desert. The strong pull of the world on the flesh has not gone away. So we as Christians are to live on this world but develop our spirit. How much of our behavior is spirit driven and how much by the world? Now extend that. How much of our interpretation of scripture is spirit driven and how much comes from the world?

Having said all of that I know that God designed us and also guided the scripture. So the amount of truth and proper doctrine must be present. But I feel that the main points are clear but the detail for some reason is not given us. This understanding is what guides me. Now others I have seen take the other path. They feel that the Holy Ghost tells them the correct interpretation of scripture and all others come from Satan. I think this is a test of pride built into scripture. I see the message of false pride over and over in the stories in scripture. I see that it would not be out of character for God to also use the interpretation of scripture to show us the same behavior in ourselves.

Oh yes. There are certainly secrets in the uniquely inspired writings that will remain hidden because (a) we do not have enough time, and (b) it requires much study, and most folks do not have that sort of time. We are certainly tiny sponges and we reflect the greater glory rather poorly, but we persevere with humility or end up sounding like Teddy Bear (a false name for any false teacher who claims to know it all...)

HH.


Oh, and (c) it requires much time alone with God...and well, I read Andrew Murray's book about the 'sin of prayerlessness' ...and we are all lazy bones there... God is gracious and still feeds us little lambs, and even the doggies get crumbs...but the piggies and snakes well they get what they deserve for putting their own truths forward as God's word.

[Cow Poke]

When I read scripture I find something in the words and that something enters into me. Now each time I read the same scripture for the hundredth time I find something new. Because of this I know that I will never truly know the complete meaning of any verse. I accept this as normal and I see that I share this scriptural environment with many people....

My personal testimony to what you're saying...

I used to read the "I know thy works" sections in Revelation, and think that God was watching to catch me doing something displeasing to Him....

Then, one day, having been falsely accused by a "friend" for whom I had really gone to bat... I mean - this was one of those ... she REALLY misunderstood, but was too angry to listen to explanation... And I thought of those words... "I know thy works..."

All of a sudden, it was like God was saying... "when nobody understands... when nobody knows how hard you have worked, or how much you have tried..... I know"

What I USED to see as some kind of warning was now a word of comfort.

When nobody else knows your heart... God knows.

[headheart]

I used to read the "I know thy works" sections in Revelation,......

I recall the Lord giving me a particular phrase in my times of quiet when I was (physical) miles away from a Bible, not only that but I knew it was not in my bible. (well not the KJV)... all the Holy Spirit breathed in my spirit was 'I am in control' Now having studied way too much theology (that is helpful), I know that God is sovereign and so I was happy to add the phrase to a picture of Jesus sitting with a child and stick it up in my kitchen.

Praise the Lord!

One word could touch our lives....you know the word I mean....and I guess it really does mean that when that someone breathes into us, whether we are doing a Bilbe study or riding the E-type on Sunset Boulevaard,......and we are paying attention we might get a word that is not just for us but for others as well.

Jesus is the word.

HH.

[bc1980]

8 To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in [2] God who created all things, 10 so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. 11 This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord,
Ephesians 3:8-11 ESV

In the past, I always read this passage as though in the future God was going to reveal His wisdom through the church.

Now I see the the "manifold wisdom" of God IS realized in Christ Jesus.

Now that's exciting!

[popaface]

At the moment it is the Shepherd of Hermas; a wonderful proto-orthodox text which contains a very interesting angelomorphic pneumatological Christology. I think it should be included back in the canon of Scripture - had we lived in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th centuries, chances are we would have considered and heard it as Scripture.

Allan

[Cow Poke]

At the moment it is the Shepherd of Hermas; a wonderful proto-orthodox text which contains a very interesting angelomorphic pneumatological Christology. I think it should be included back in the canon of Scripture - had we lived in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th centuries, chances are we would have considered and heard it as Scripture.

Allan

Allan,
examples, please.... thanks

[popaface]

Pardon me? Examples of what? I just mentioned a piece of Scripture that I find very moving... Do you want examples from within the text itself of it's interesting Christology?

For instance, Similitudes 9,1,1 identifies the Son with the Spirit, but read the book yourself, it's quite remarkable and I think more Christians should read it. (It was considered Scripture for most of the early Church). :)

Allan

[Cow Poke]

Pardon me? Examples of what? I just mentioned a piece of Scripture that I find very moving... Do you want examples from within the text itself of it's interesting Christology?

yes, exactly, and i was just asking you to give a few examples of what inspired you.. no bait... no pretense... just curiosity. civil discourse

For instance, Similitudes 9,1,1 identifies the Son with the Spirit, but read the book yourself, it's quite remarkable and I think more Christians should read it. (It was considered Scripture for most of the early Church). :)

Allan

Yup. That's all i was asking.

[franktalk]

I am looking for opinions on the book of Daniel and the sealing of the book. I have heard people say that the sealing meant no understanding until some later time. I don't agree with this at all.

I think Daniel and the other people who spoke to God were limited in what they could write or say. The best example is Rev 10:4 in which John is told not to write (seal) the voices from the seven thunders.

How many times do we hear that some people were given complete knowledge yet they wrote in scripture in very unclear terms sometimes. Then other times very clear.

Has anybody else noticed this and formed any opinions about it?

[popaface]

Well, I don't think that anyone who's ever written a book which was later canonized as Scripture ever thought that that's exactly what they were writing.

No one who's written a book think, "I wonder how this will be interpreted 2000 years after I'm dead." People just don't do it. Further, no one who's written apocalyptic literature and really believes that the entire course of the world will end during their life (a la Daniel and Revelation) would even think that a "2000-years-later" would exist. The people who picked up and read these books days after they were written understood them perfectly, clearly and normally. Apocalyptic literature was very popular in Judeo-Christianity, though it did become a dead discourse a few centuries in. Nevertheless, the reason we don't understand them perfectly and clearly is because they're often cryptic and require a specific communal context in which to locate their subject matter - that is, usually, within the context of persecution, fringe movements, underground movements, etc. Also, I don't really imagine that we think in the same ways as these people anymore. We certainly don't use the same terminology, our cosmology is different, our understanding about persecution is different, our religion is different. Apocalyptic literature is fascinating, but it's dead, in most respects.

Allan