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Thread: A question I have

  1. #11
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jedidiah View Post
    Matthew 5:44
    "But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,"

    Your quote is fine, but your subsequent interpretation is less so. Other theologians do not agree so you do not have a clear "no no."
    John 13:34, 35
    I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another.
    35 By this all will know that you are my disciples—IF you have love among yourselves.”

    A big "IF"!
    War = no love
    A commandment must be followed.
    No love no discipleship!
    BU

  2. #12
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bibleuser View Post
    John 13:34, 35
    I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another.
    35 By this all will know that you are my disciples—IF you have love among yourselves.”

    A big "IF"!
    War = no love
    A commandment must be followed.
    No love no discipleship!
    BU
    To whom was He speaking?

    33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. You will seek me, and just as I said to the Jews, so now I also say to you, ‘Where I am going you cannot come.’ 34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. 35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”


    Well, lookie there, He was talking to His disciples, about "one another".

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  3. #13
    Theologyweb's Official Grandfather Jedidiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bibleuser View Post
    The context help understanding who and when etc..

    Jesus notes that when he sent them out in the past they lacked for nothing and he would have been on hand to help etc..

    But now as he was shortly to die things would change for them so now they would be going out into the world and the wilds in their preaching so they would need some protection maybe for wild animals and robbers etc..

    Regarding joining in national or international warfare say joining the Roman Pagan Legions as you pointed out that was totally a no no.

    Matthew 5:44
    However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you,
    Continue to love your enemies: Jesus’ counsel is in harmony with the spirit of the Hebrew Scriptures.—Ex 23:4,*5; Job 31:29; Prov. 24:17, 18; 25:21.
    Thus no one claming to be Christian cannot go to War.
    BU

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    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

  4. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.
  5. #14
    tWebber Rushing Jaws's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWall View Post
    I was reading my devotional bible and in luke Jesus speaks of selling your cloak and buying a sword. He also said however that one who lives by the sword dies by the sword.

    In that case how are we to view things like self defense or serving in a war as christians?

    I know Jesus congratulated the soldier ( A centurion one of the most well trained soldiers in antiquity) and Paul uses boxers and soldiers in his metaphors on faith.

    I would like to know your thoughts.
    Personally I see no problem in self defense ormilitary service.
    I have no doubt that WW2 was a Just War, and that Hitler and the Third Reich needed exactly what happened to them. I think it was ludicrous to apologise for the bombing of Dresden - the Germans followed a false prophet and fore-runner of Antichrist, and obeyed and worshipped their false prophet, so they had it coming. (So, too, does a lot of the West - but that is a different story.)

    It would not have been Christian, but grossly immoral, not to fight against Hitler. I wish the US had come into the War much earlier - but it didn’t, so that is all there is to it. As guidance for international politics, any nation that totally disarmed would be committing suicide - and rulers have no right to do that to those they rule. Such a nation would be failing to defend its people, and empowering its invaders, and laying itself open to be raped and pillaged and murdered.

    I don’t believe the Sermon on the Mount has anything to offer about international politics, and I don’t think it was intended to. Jesus was talking to Jews, in Palestine, about relations between Palestinian Jews - that His Words were adopted or edited, or whatever, for Christian, wider, use, is (humanly speaking) a mere co-incidence. To that extent, C. I. Scofield was correct in seeing a difference between what Jesus said, and what St Paul said.

    This has very troubling implications for Christianity, because it means we are still imprisoned by the need to meet violence with violence. This seems to me to be a very serious objection to the Teaching of Christ - it is just not practical. It works, if at all, only in the diluted version of it found in the Letters. And that was within 2 generations. Now, in a wholly different culture, I think it is of no practical value at all.

    What we really need is a new Bible, one that is not 1900 years behind the times. But we won’t get one. Still, a Bible that addressed issues like international politics, weapons production, abortion, women’s rights, human rights, voting, immigration, population control, eugenics, marriage failure, party politics, capitalism, imperialism, debt slavery, mortgages and other pressing issues that have real effects on people, would be much more useful than a Bible that talks about long-dead Jewish kings, rotas of Temple priests, returning Exiles, and the 19 sons of David (I counted); none of which are of the slightest importance today.

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