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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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Is morality a human construct?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    This as a matter of fact is questioning the role of evolution in the nature of of behavior and morals of humans without giving specifics of what you believe is a problem. I saw a touch of sarcasm in your post in the reference to a 'story.' Despite many unanswered questions concerning the nature of human behavior, the science of evolution does provide an adequate explanation.

    In contrast I believe God is ultimately the Creator of everything, and determined the nature of human behavior and morality, and evolution at present gives an adequate explanation in terms of the physical process involved.
    I agree with your last paragraph. Evolution gives an adequate explanation of the physical process involved. My point was that it hasn't been established that evolution can explain everything about the content of cultural evolution. As you yourself say, God would play some explanatory role as to why there is an evolutionary process to begin with. But even setting God aside, since my point didn't really depend on there being a God, even if evolution is the necessary condition for human life and culture, what argument is there that it is also the sufficient condition? Are physics and maths explainable only in terms of our evolutionary development? How could this be established? If everything about what we are and do can be fully accounted for evolutionarily, how could we even know this fact?

    "Story" is commonly used in philosophy to mean "account." It wasn't meant sarcastically.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      still not getting it. How is that not subjective? Give me an example of subjective v objective using eating babies for fun. and then an example of absolute v relative using the same example. Maybe then I can understand your objection to what I said.
      There's not an objective example for 'fun', since 'fun' is an emotional assessment. "Eating babies is fun" is a subjective statement. "Eating babies is good" is a relative statement that relies on the axiom "Fun things are good things" and combines it with the subjective belief that "eating babies is fun". For it to be absolute, you'd have to somehow establish that the claims "fun things are good things" AND "eating babies is fun" are true for all people in all instances.

      I'll see if I can come up with a better example.
      I'm not here anymore.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
        There's not an objective example for 'fun', since 'fun' is an emotional assessment. "Eating babies is fun" is a subjective statement. "Eating babies is good" is a relative statement that relies on the axiom "Fun things are good things" and combines it with the subjective belief that "eating babies is fun". For it to be absolute, you'd have to somehow establish that the claims "fun things are good things" AND "eating babies is fun" are true for all people in all instances.

        I'll see if I can come up with a better example.
        By "fun" I meant unnecessarily. As opposed to you coming up with an example of having to eat dead babies in order to survive starving or something like that.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          By "fun" I meant unnecessarily. As opposed to you coming up with an example of having to eat dead babies in order to survive starving or something like that.
          Ok. That makes the relative/subjective thing easier to explain, then. "Eating babies for fun is good" is a relative statement. It relies on some set of axioms that not everyone holds. "Eating babies is fun" is a subjective statement. It relies on how you feel about the act.
          I'm not here anymore.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Jim B. View Post
            I agree with your last paragraph. Evolution gives an adequate explanation of the physical process involved. My point was that it hasn't been established that evolution can explain everything about the content of cultural evolution.
            You're at best arguing from ignorance here. Not all the questions are, of course, not answered concerning the evolution of cultures, morals and ethics, but the Evolutionary Ethics discipline in science provides an adequate explanation for human behavioral evolution.

            As you yourself say, God would play some explanatory role as to why there is an evolutionary process to begin with. But even setting God aside, since my point didn't really depend on there being a God, even if evolution is the necessary condition for human life and culture, what argument is there that it is also the sufficient condition? Are physics and maths explainable only in terms of our evolutionary development? How could this be established? If everything about what we are and do can be fully accounted for evolutionarily, how could we even know this fact?
            The belief in God as the 'Source' of the evolutionary processes is part of my 'belief' as a Baha'i in the principle of the 'Harmony of Science and Religion'. As far as I am concerned science can eventually pretty much describe human behavior in terms of evolution, no problem.

            Again your argument is tainted with arguing from ignorance.

            First we do not know the conclusions of science as facts. Facts are the objective pieces of information that are used to falsify hypothesis in this case. he hypothesis that development of culture, morals and ethics are part of the evolutionary process of primates resulting in the human species. It is a work in progress, but indeed falsifiable based on the evidence of the progressive evolution of human nature from the simple and primitive to the complex culture, morals, and ethics of the human nature.

            Well actually the development of the knowledge of Physics and Math can possibly explained by evolutionary processes. I may go into more of this in a later post, but again your arguing from ignorance here.

            Hint: Neolithic humans even our relative including Neanderthals used primitive understanding of Physics and Math to function in the real world. Our primate relatives have used simple experimental Physics logic to develop primitive tools to acquire food.
            Last edited by shunyadragon; 11-28-2016, 10:32 PM.
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Jim B. View Post
              My point was that it hasn't been established that evolution can explain everything about the content of cultural evolution.
              Why would we expect evolution to explain everything about the content of cultural evolution?
              I'm not here anymore.

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