How does Allah forgive sin?

[barnasha]

For starters, you claim: "..all he has to do is recite a few words and the problem goes away." do Christians subscribe to that?? Or practise that ? Or is that even taught in the Bible / Gospel??

nope jesus doesn't regurgitate pithy slogans about being saved, neither did paul.

they encouraged people to DO things and to BE things... not just talk about it. that is what separates the real christians from the bible thumping flag waving group, who are more like the Pharisees that Jesus chided than anything.

you know it's a very convenient conception , do what ever you like and jesus will carry the burden instead of you , on the other hand islam is too much making follower responsibility for their action .

yep. its all there in the bible, and in jesus's teaching too.




"The lawteachers and the Pharisees sit in Moses' chair. This means you're supposed to observe and follow everything they tell you. But don't do what they do; after all, they're all talk and no action."
- Matthew 23:2-3

[Dan Zebiri]

Now, THIS was actually taught by Jesus Chriost - about 'being saved', and found in the John Gospel, chapter 3:

1 There was a man from the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Him at night and said, " Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher, for no one could perform these signs You do unless God were with him."

3 Jesus replied, " I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
4 "But how can anyone be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked Him. "Can he enter his mother's womb a second time and be born?"
5 Jesus answered, " I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again. 8 The wind blows where it pleases, and you hear its sound, but you don't know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
9 "How can these things be?" asked Nicodemus.
10 "Are you a teacher of Israel and don't know these things?" Jesus replied. 11 " I assure you: We speak what We know and We testify to what We have seen, but you do not accept Our testimony. 12 If I have told you about things that happen on earth and you don't believe, how will you believe if I tell you about things of heaven? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven —the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness,so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes in Him will have eternal life. 16 "For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world that He might judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18 Anyone who believes in Him is not judged, but anyone who does not believe is already judged, because he has not believed in the name of the One and Only Son of God."


So, barney, the words 'BE Saved' were actually uttered by Christ Himself to His followers and to Nicodemus.

Disproving your bald assertion that Jesus 'regurgitated pithy slogans!'

Dan.

nope jesus doesn't regurgitate pithy slogans about being saved, neither did paul.

they encouraged people to DO things and to BE things... not just talk about it. that is what separates the real christians from the bible thumping flag waving group, who are more like the Pharisees that Jesus chided than anything.



yep. its all there in the bible, and in jesus's teaching too.




"The lawteachers and the Pharisees sit in Moses' chair. This means you're supposed to observe and follow everything they tell you. But don't do what they do; after all, they're all talk and no action."
- Matthew 23:2-3

[barnasha]

Now, THIS was actually taught by Jesus Chriost - about 'being saved', and found in the John Gospel, chapter 3:

who wrote that book? Not Jesus...

So, barney, the words 'BE Saved' were actually uttered by Christ Himself to His followers and to Nicodemus.

really? where exactly?

[asmaa]

Now, THIS was actually taught by Jesus Chriost - about 'being saved', and found in the John Gospel, chapter 3:

1 There was a man from the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Him at night and said, " Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher, for no one could perform these signs You do unless God were with him."

3 Jesus replied, " I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
4 "But how can anyone be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked Him. "Can he enter his mother's womb a second time and be born?"
5 Jesus answered, " I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again. 8 The wind blows where it pleases, and you hear its sound, but you don't know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
9 "How can these things be?" asked Nicodemus.
10 "Are you a teacher of Israel and don't know these things?" Jesus replied. 11 " I assure you: We speak what We know and We testify to what We have seen, but you do not accept Our testimony. 12 If I have told you about things that happen on earth and you don't believe, how will you believe if I tell you about things of heaven? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven —the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness,so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes in Him will have eternal life. 16 "For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world that He might judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18 Anyone who believes in Him is not judged, but anyone who does not believe is already judged, because he has not believed in the name of the One and Only Son of God."


So, barney, the words 'BE Saved' were actually uttered by Christ Himself to His followers and to Nicodemus.

Disproving your bald assertion that Jesus 'regurgitated pithy slogans!'

Dan.

let me teach you something jesus only can save himself

Qur'an the ultimate truth , chapter 5
And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. (116) "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things. (117) "If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servant: If Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise."

[barnasha]

Jesus can save you too, but only if you actually do something with yourself other than talk to other people about jesus.



"Why do you call me Lord but don't do what I tell you?" - Jesus

[asmaa]

Jesus can save you too, but only if you actually do something with yourself other than talk to other people about jesus.



"Why do you call me Lord but don't do what I tell you?" - Jesus

true faith , good deeds and above all that allah mercy is the only way nothing else

[barnasha]

thats right... so if you follow the way you're ok.. but if you talk about the way, and trick yourself into thinking you're on it... when only God knows.... your loss will be great....

[Dan Zebiri]

Aha, now your real polemics is truly showing itself! Jesus Christ does NOT NEED to write that Gospel!

The facts are that He SAID THOSE WORDS, so they were all accurately recorded down by eye witnesses accounts which are all verifiable by other witnesses of THAT day, AND by analysts and textual critics of LATER years.

UNLIKE the quran, which was historically produced 700-800 YEARS LATER! And desperately tries to re-write the life and teachings of Jesus Christ in some of its pages! Whihc is nothing more than mere revisionism.

Jesus already declared that being saved is by BELIEVING IN HIM, as the eternal Son of Man and Son of God.

AND NOT by striving and doing good deeds (ala islam) to save ourselves from destruction.

John 3:13 already states very clearly that Jesus Himself claimed His origin is from Heaven and He was not an earthly person..there are many more references that support this.

Dan.

who wrote that book? Not Jesus...






really? where exactly?

[barnasha]

is that so? how do you know? you haven't cited any place in any of those books where Jesus said what you said he said...... not that those books should be assumed to be 100% accurate reflections of what he may or may not have said. but that's beside the point...... you said jesus said something, but its not in the bible... just curious then where you got that idea if not from the bible........

[Dan Zebiri]

What nonsense you keep spouting, barnasha...:-))

I 'haven't cited any place in those books'...?? You could well be blind are reading selectively again - as usual, Even before you made your baseless statements, I had already quoted from John's Gospel in the Bible :

Now, THIS was actually taught by Jesus Chriost - about 'being saved', and found in the John Gospel, chapter 3:

1 There was a man from the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Him at night and said, " Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher, for no one could perform these signs You do unless God were with him."

3 Jesus replied, " I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
4 "But how can anyone be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked Him. "Can he enter his mother's womb a second time and be born?"
5 Jesus answered, " I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again. 8 The wind blows where it pleases, and you hear its sound, but you don't know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
9 "How can these things be?" asked Nicodemus.
10 "Are you a teacher of Israel and don't know these things?" Jesus replied. 11 " I assure you: We speak what We know and We testify to what We have seen, but you do not accept Our testimony. 12 If I have told you about things that happen on earth and you don't believe, how will you believe if I tell you about things of heaven? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven —the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness,so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes in Him will have eternal life. 16 "For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world that He might judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18 Anyone who believes in Him is not judged, but anyone who does not believe is already judged, because he has not believed in the name of the One and Only Son of God."

So, barney, the words 'BE Saved' were actually uttered by Christ Himself to His followers and to Nicodemus.

Disproving your bald assertion that Jesus 'regurgitated pithy slogans!'

Prove to us that the quotation above is not in the Bible! You just can't prove that Jesus actually DID NOT say these words, except by regurgitating more worthless islamic polemics.

Dan.

is that so? how do you know? you haven't cited any place in any of those books where Jesus said what you said he said...... not that those books should be assumed to be 100% accurate reflections of what he may or may not have said. but that's beside the point...... you said jesus said something, but its not in the bible... just curious then where you got that idea if not from the bible........

[barnasha]

it seems as if you are making the mistake that verse 17 is a citation of Jesus.

[Dan Zebiri]

Simplistic non-answers & polemics of yours are NOT EQUAL to sensible or rational replies!

WHAT mistake??? PROVE to us the fact of what you assert! Prove to me that verse 17 is NOT 'a citation of Jesus'.

t seems that the burden of proof lies squarely on you, barney..., not the Christians.

it seems as if you are making the mistake that verse 17 is a citation of Jesus.

[barnasha]

Verse 17 is not a citation of Jesus, is it?

[Sparko]

Verse 17 is not a citation of Jesus, is it?

yes it is. There were two people there. Jesus and Nicodemus. Jesus was teaching Nicodemus and answering his questions.

[barnasha]

you're right, it was my mistake...

sorry about that Dan.

my point was that Jesus did not go around talking about 'being saved' - what i actually said was:

"nope jesus doesn't regurgitate pithy slogans about being saved, neither did paul."

Here Jesus is not reciting a slogan about being saved, he is using the words 'be saved' with an effect.

(And also, the target of 'saving' is the world here, not a believer.)

I do not and never did have an issue with using the term 'saved', I do have an issue with using words as a catchphrase or repeating what one heard form others rather than using them to express an idea they are trying to convey....

That is why I said Jesus and Paul did not use slogans. The people made up slogans based on what Jesus and Paul said.

But these two men spoke directly from their hearts and not some worldly, theo-political context.