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Unorthodox Theology 201 Guidelines

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This forum area is primarily for persons who would identify themselves as Christians whether or not their theology is recognized within the mainstream or as orthodox though other theists may participate with moderator permission. Therefore those that would be restricted from posting in Christianity 201 due to a disagreement with the enumerated doctrines, ie the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment may freely post here on any theological subject matter. In this case "unorthodox" is used in the strict sense of a person who denies what has been declared as universal essentials of the historic Christian faith. Examples would be adherents to Oneness, Full Preterists, Unitarian Universalist Christians, Gnostics, Liberal Christianity, Christian Science to name a few.

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Help me! I'm beginning to abandon the Trinity.

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  • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    It's rather widely acknowledged that the writings of Dionysius the Araeopagite are pseudonymous, and weren't written until the sixth century (and likely by a Monophysite).
    That is exactly what I am contesting.

    St Thomas Aquinas had no use for denying the Araeopagite authorship, and while I am generally against Romanides, two things are to his credit, he agreed with St Thomas Aquinas on this one and he agreed Aenaeas came to Latinus (even if it was for the somewhat less lucid purpose of proving Greek rather than Latin first language of Rome : Aeneas and Latinus could have had other options than Mycenean Greek).
    http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html

    Thanks, Sparko, for telling how I add the link here!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by hansgeorg View Post
      That is exactly what I am contesting.
      If you have some evidence for the writings from before the sixth century, I'd be interested in seeing it.
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
      sigpic
      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

      Comment


      • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
        If you have some evidence for the writings from before the sixth century, I'd be interested in seeing it.
        If you have any evidence of his writings from just after sixth century attributing it to sixth century rather than to the disciple of St Paul, I'd be interested in seeing that.
        http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html

        Thanks, Sparko, for telling how I add the link here!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by hansgeorg View Post
          If you have any evidence of his writings from just after sixth century attributing it to sixth century rather than to the disciple of St Paul, I'd be interested in seeing that.
          That's not how pseudonymous writings work. There are many, many pseudonymous writings extant. I can think of ONE which was immediately identified as such (namely, 3 Corinthians).
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

          Comment


          • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
            I can think of ONE which was immediately identified as such (namely, 3 Corinthians).
            Sure III Corinthians is pseudonymous rather than Pauline but merely topical and not claimed by St Paul as inspired teaching?
            http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html

            Thanks, Sparko, for telling how I add the link here!

            Comment


            • That OK as The Bible does not teach it, it a latter idea added to The Bible, not therein:-

              ‘The Oxford Companion To The Bible’ Ed. by Bruce M. Metzger & Michael D. Coogan on page 782 says on the trinity:-
              “Trinity Because the Trinity is such an important part of later Christian doctrine, it is striking the term does not appear in the New Testament. Likewise, the development of three coequal partners in the Godhead found in later creedal formulations cannot be clearly detected within the confines of the canon.”

              BU
              Last edited by Bibleuser; 12-12-2017, 07:44 AM. Reason: forgot to add quote

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Bibleuser View Post
                That OK as The Bible does not teach it, it a latter idea added to The Bible, not therein:-

                ‘The Oxford Companion To The Bible’ Ed. by Bruce M. Metzger & Michael D. Coogan on page 782 says on the trinity:-
                “Trinity Because the Trinity is such an important part of later Christian doctrine, it is striking the term does not appear in the New Testament. Likewise, the development of three coequal partners in the Godhead found in later creedal formulations cannot be clearly detected within the confines of the canon.”

                BU
                That's what
                - She

                Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                - Stephen R. Donaldson

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                  Impressive how much mileage Unitarians and Muslims get out of that quote. I can't find the context online (Oxford wants me to buy access).
                  Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                  Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                  sigpic
                  I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                  Comment


                  • Here is another one I found from the dust cover of the book 'Triads and Trinity' by John Gwyn Griffiths BA, DD (Wales), MA (Liverpool), :-

                    "Was the idea of the Trinity - that One God exists in three Persons and One Substance - influenced by pre-Christian traditions? It is well known that the New Testament offers no such doctrine, and there is no evidence the Jesus of Nazareth regarded himself as a member of the Trinity. The doctrine was developed during the first four Christian centuries, culminating in the Council of Constantinople in AD 381. . . . In Egypt the concept of trinity was of ancient origin, but it flourished especially in the second century AD and afterwards, when the mystery cult of Isis reached its acme of popularity in a Graeco-Egyptian framework which found adherents in many countries of the Roman empire. This religious amalgam exercised a potent influence on early Christian thinkers, particularly in Alexandria"
                    BU

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Bibleuser View Post
                      Here is another one I found from the dust cover of the book 'Triads and Trinity' by John Gwyn Griffiths BA, DD (Wales), MA (Liverpool), :-

                      "Was the idea of the Trinity - that One God exists in three Persons and One Substance - influenced by pre-Christian traditions? It is well known that the New Testament offers no such doctrine, and there is no evidence the Jesus of Nazareth regarded himself as a member of the Trinity. The doctrine was developed during the first four Christian centuries, culminating in the Council of Constantinople in AD 381. . . . In Egypt the concept of trinity was of ancient origin, but it flourished especially in the second century AD and afterwards, when the mystery cult of Isis reached its acme of popularity in a Graeco-Egyptian framework which found adherents in many countries of the Roman empire. This religious amalgam exercised a potent influence on early Christian thinkers, particularly in Alexandria"
                      BU
                      John Gwyn Griffiths (7 December 1911 – 15 June 2004) was a Welsh poet, Egyptologist and nationalist political activist.
                      That's what
                      - She

                      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                      - Stephen R. Donaldson

                      Comment


                      • We never had someone cite a dust cover before.

                        Comment


                        • It very useful for a summing content and theme.
                          BU

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Bibleuser View Post
                            That OK as The Bible does not teach it, it a latter idea added to The Bible...
                            But the Bible teaches that Jesus is God, see "Jesus as God" by Murray Harris. And then trinitarianism naturally follows.

                            Blessings,
                            Lee
                            "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                            Comment


                            • True enough - the term "trinity" is not found in the Bible.

                              However, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are shown by various Bible passages as being separate identities.
                              The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are also shown by various Bible passages to each be God.

                              Trinity is just a useful term to describe the facts as presented in the Bible. I'm sure that others have mentioned these matters before though.
                              1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                              .
                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                              Scripture before Tradition:
                              but that won't prevent others from
                              taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                              of the right to call yourself Christian.

                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                              Comment


                              • That is not quite right as it says:-
                                As the Holy Scriptures states that Almighty God cannot be seen, see below:-

                                1 John 4:12 At NO TIME has anyone beheld God.

                                John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.

                                Now this is an important statement in our discussion, “NO MAN has seen God at ANY time” as this must include Abraham etc. etc. otherwise it is untrue, and that cannot be so can it?

                                John 5:37 Also, the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. YOU have neither heard his voice at any time nor seen his figure.”

                                John 6:46 “Jesus said “Not that any man has seen the Father, except he who is from God; this one has seen the Father.””


                                If the Bible says that NO man at ANY time has or can see God then this must be true as it is statement “inspired of God”. Then Jesus cannot be God.

                                Comment

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