Page 38 of 38 FirstFirst ... 28363738
Results 371 to 377 of 377

Thread: Help me! I'm beginning to abandon the Trinity.

  1. #371
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Faith
    Unorthodox
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    91
    Amen (Given)
    1
    Amen (Received)
    0
    God’s intention was for Adam and Eve ( and by extension the whole of humanity) to live forever as bodily creatures. Only when Adam sin did his body began to see corruption. Had Adam never sinned he would have lived forever as is, that is, as a man with a human body & the “breath of God” in him. The concept of an indestructible human “person” (or “rational soul “) able to exist separately and outside of the human body is a pagan notion, nowhere taught in scripture.

  2. #372
    Professor Cerebrum123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    9,367
    Amen (Given)
    17517
    Amen (Received)
    3472
    Quote Originally Posted by Unitarian101 View Post
    God’s intention was for Adam and Eve ( and by extension the whole of humanity) to live forever as bodily creatures. Only when Adam sin did his body began to see corruption. Had Adam never sinned he would have lived forever as is, that is, as a man with a human body & the “breath of God” in him. The concept of an indestructible human “person” (or “rational soul “) able to exist separately and outside of the human body is a pagan notion, nowhere taught in scripture.


    1 Samuel 28:11 Then the woman asked, “Whom shall I bring up for you?”

    “Bring up Samuel,” he said.

    12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!”

    13 The king said to her, “Don’t be afraid. What do you see?”

    The woman said, “I see a ghostly figure[a] coming up out of the earth.”

    14 “What does he look like?” he asked.

    “An old man wearing a robe is coming up,” she said.

    Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.

    15 Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”

    Matthew 17:2-4 New International Version (NIV)
    2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

    Luke 24:38-40 New International Version (NIV)
    38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

    Revelation 6:8-10 New International Version (NIV)
    8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

    9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”

  3. #373
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Faith
    Unorthodox
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    91
    Amen (Given)
    1
    Amen (Received)
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerebrum123 View Post


    1 Samuel 28:11 Then the woman asked, “Whom shall I bring up for you?”

    “Bring up Samuel,” he said.

    12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!”

    13 The king said to her, “Don’t be afraid. What do you see?”

    The woman said, “I see a ghostly figure[a] coming up out of the earth.”

    14 “What does he look like?” he asked.

    “An old man wearing a robe is coming up,” she said.

    Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.

    15 Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”

    Matthew 17:2-4 New International Version (NIV)
    2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

    Luke 24:38-40 New International Version (NIV)
    38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

    Revelation 6:8-10 New International Version (NIV)
    8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

    9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”
    Let's look at the verses one at a time. Start with 1 Samuel 28:11 :

    Saul here has a human form, he is an old man wearing a robe. Are you saying that disembodied human spirits have bodies and clothes ?

  4. #374
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    581
    Amen (Given)
    42
    Amen (Received)
    31
    Do you not believe in angels, Unitarian? They are rational souls without human bodies.

  5. #375
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Faith
    Unorthodox
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    91
    Amen (Given)
    1
    Amen (Received)
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Darfius View Post
    Do you not believe in angels, Unitarian? They are rational souls without human bodies.
    What precisely do you mean by that they are “rational souls” and where does scripture say that is the case ? And how is this relevant to the definition of (human) death ?

  6. #376
    Professor Cerebrum123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    9,367
    Amen (Given)
    17517
    Amen (Received)
    3472
    Quote Originally Posted by Unitarian101 View Post
    Let's look at the verses one at a time. Start with 1 Samuel 28:11 :

    Saul here has a human form, he is an old man wearing a robe. Are you saying that disembodied human spirits have bodies and clothes ?
    There isn't anything preventing a "ghost" from having "clothes", they just aren't made from physical materials. I've seen a demon wearing a raincoat, so Samuel* wearing a robe is no big deal.

    *Not Saul as you say in your post.

  7. #377
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    581
    Amen (Given)
    42
    Amen (Received)
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by Unitarian101 View Post
    What precisely do you mean by that they are “rational souls” and where does scripture say that is the case ? And how is this relevant to the definition of (human) death ?
    Scripture Verse: Luke 1

    19 The angel said to him, “I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to tell you this good news. 20 And now you will be silent and not able to speak until the day this happens, because you did not believe my words, which will come true at their appointed time.”

    © Copyright Original Source



    Clearly rational. And it's relevant because part of your argument seems to be that human beings cannot exist separate from their bodies because then they couldn't be rational. Disproved.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •