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Thread: Help me! I'm beginning to abandon the Trinity.

  1. #261
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    This is why we can't converse with you lot. I said SPIRIT can't die. We didn't agree on anything.
    You said God (who is Spirit ) does not die. If your words mean anything that is equivalent to saying that God does not die. I agree with you on this point. So itís not true that we donít agree on anything.

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unitarian101 View Post
    You said God (who is Spirit ) does not die. If your words mean anything that is equivalent to saying that God does not die. I agree with you on this point. So itís not true that we donít agree on anything.
    Jesus was both fully man and fully God.

  3. #263
    Thanks Old Man... Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unitarian101 View Post
    You said God (who is Spirit ) does not die.
    Exactly right. SPIRIT does not die.

    If your words mean anything that is equivalent to saying that God does not die.
    NO!!! The SPIRIT of God does not die. When God took on human flesh, that FLESH died.

    I agree with you on this point. So itís not true that we donít agree on anything.
    You've gotten my point horribly wrong. You agree with a straw man of your own making.


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

  4. #264
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Exactly right. SPIRIT does not die.



    NO!!! The SPIRIT of God does not die. When God took on human flesh, that FLESH died.



    You've gotten my point horribly wrong. You agree with a straw man of your own making.
    You made the following statement:

    ďThere is clear evidence that God. who is Spirit, does not die. ď

    Would you like to amend it ? Because the above English sentence is saying God does not die NOT that the Spirit of God does not die.

  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Jesus was both fully man and fully God.
    Donít see how that makes a difference. Jesus was one person ( even Trinitarians are agreed on this), and the bible says that he ( the one person) died. So unless you believe the God of the bible can die , I donít see how Jesus can be the God of the bible.

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    Thanks Old Man... Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unitarian101 View Post
    You made the following statement:

    ďThere is clear evidence that God. who is Spirit, does not die. ď

    Would you like to amend it ? Because the above English sentence is saying God does not die NOT that the Spirit of God does not die.
    I contrast natures. God is a nature and is Spirit. Human is a nature and is flesh. The nature that is God does not and can not die because it is spirit. The nature that is human does die because it is flesh. Flesh dies. Spirit does not. God the Son died on a cross, meaning his flesh died like all flesh does. His spirit did not die the way His flesh did, therefore, God suffered a mortal death in His flesh, but lives forever in His Spirit.


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

  7. #267
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unitarian101 View Post
    Donít see how that makes a difference. Jesus was one person ( even Trinitarians are agreed on this), and the bible says that he ( the one person) died. So unless you believe the God of the bible can die , I donít see how Jesus can be the God of the bible.
    You are trying to use semantic games here. Using your personal definition of death, to determine what the bible means. There are two types of death in the bible. One is the physical death of the body. The spirit does not cease to exist. It lives on. You live on. But where you end up determines whether you suffer spiritual death, which is separation from the Father. At no time does your spirit cease to exist in either case. Even those in hell continue to 'live' forever, but that separation from God is called spiritual death.

    Jesus suffered physical death on the cross. He also suffered separation from the Father. At no time did the Father die, nor did the Son cease to exist. The Triune God did not cease to exist or die. There was a temporary separation from the Father by the Son as he was forsaken, at least according to some theologians. Jesus visited sheol to set the captives free. Then his body was resurrected and he ascended to be with the Father again.

    I know that you will not accept this but I post it for others to read.

  8. Amen Bill the Cat, Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  9. #268
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    You are trying to use semantic games here. Using your personal definition of death, to determine what the bible means. There are two types of death in the bible. One is the physical death of the body. The spirit does not cease to exist. It lives on. You live on. But where you end up determines whether you suffer spiritual death, which is separation from the Father. At no time does your spirit cease to exist in either case. Even those in hell continue to 'live' forever, but that separation from God is called spiritual death.

    Jesus suffered physical death on the cross. He also suffered separation from the Father. At no time did the Father die, nor did the Son cease to exist. The Triune God did not cease to exist or die. There was a temporary separation from the Father by the Son as he was forsaken, at least according to some theologians. Jesus visited sheol to set the captives free. Then his body was resurrected and he ascended to be with the Father again.

    I know that you will not accept this but I post it for others to read.
    You say that ďat no time did the Father die nor the son cease to exist.Ē So you do understand that at no time did God ( albeit the Father ) die, but at some point in time the son ( who apparently also is God) died , though he did not cease to exist. But according to your philosophy this is true of all other humans as well. You would also say that all men die but no man ceases to exist at any time.

    Itís simple logic:

    X = to die ( no matter how you wish to define it)

    God does NOT X
    Jesus did X
    Jesus is not God

  10. #269
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    I contrast natures. God is a nature and is Spirit. Human is a nature and is flesh. The nature that is God does not and can not die because it is spirit. The nature that is human does die because it is flesh. Flesh dies. Spirit does not. God the Son died on a cross, meaning his flesh died like all flesh does. His spirit did not die the way His flesh did, therefore, God suffered a mortal death in His flesh, but lives forever in His Spirit.
    There are so many dubious statements here that if I addressed them all it would take me hopelessly off course. So I will just deal with the bare basics for now:

    X = to die ( no matter how you wish to define it)

    God does NOT X
    Jesus did X
    Jesus is not God

    I donít see how you can logically ( and biblically) negate above.

  11. #270
    tWebber
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    The Bible clearly states that Jesus made everything that exists, including angels. Don't pretend to be logical when you can't understand that by process of elimination, that makes Him God. You can't see the truth because you don't want to see the truth. Or, worse, you're like the devil and see the truth, but hate it. Either way, it isn't gunna end well for you unless you repent and act like what you are--God's creation.

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