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Unorthodox Theology 201 Guidelines

Theists only.

This forum area is primarily for persons who would identify themselves as Christians whether or not their theology is recognized within the mainstream or as orthodox though other theists may participate with moderator permission. Therefore those that would be restricted from posting in Christianity 201 due to a disagreement with the enumerated doctrines, ie the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment may freely post here on any theological subject matter. In this case "unorthodox" is used in the strict sense of a person who denies what has been declared as universal essentials of the historic Christian faith. Examples would be adherents to Oneness, Full Preterists, Unitarian Universalist Christians, Gnostics, Liberal Christianity, Christian Science to name a few.

The second purpose will be for threads on subjects, which although the thread starter has no issue with the above doctrines, the subject matter is so very outside the bounds of normative Christian doctrine totally within the leadership's discretion that it is placed here. In so doing, no judgment or offense is intended to be placed on the belief of said person in the above-doctrines. In this case "unorthodox" is used in a much looser sense of "outside the norms" - Examples of such threads would be pro-polygamy, pro-drug use, proponents of gay Christian churches, proponents of abortion.

The third purpose is for persons who wish to have input from any and all who would claim the title of Christian even on subjects that would be considered "orthodox."

The philosophy behind this area was to recognize that there are persons who would identify themselves as Christian and thus seem out of place in the Comparative Religions Forum, but yet in keeping with our committment here to certain basic core Christian doctrines. Also, it allows threads to be started by those who would want to still be identified as Christian with a particular belief that while not denying an essential is of such a nature that the discussion on that issue belongs in this section or for threads by persons who wish such a non-restricted discussion.


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Help me! I'm beginning to abandon the Trinity.

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  • Alright Sparko, I'll have to keep my posts shorter I guess.

    If a "God the Son" dwelt in Yeshua bodily he would have said "...I am in me and me is in I, I and myself are one...". He would have spoke nothing but what he taught himself and done only those things he saw himself doing. He would have said, "...no one comes to the Son except through me...". Really don't know how men can miss this.

    Consider, Sparko, whether choosing to believe something is what salvation consists of. Truly, absolute knowledge comes by an obedience that comes by faith, just as it is everywhere written. IOW, if we do not know of what we speak it is not Truth that we are speaking... it is the most popular speculation.
    Last edited by Jeff; 11-08-2018, 11:48 AM.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Unitarian101 View Post
      Would you say that there is no clear/indisputable scripture in either the OT or NT which asserts that God does not die ?
      No. I wouldn't say that. There is clear evidence that God. who is Spirit, does not die. There is also clear evidence that OUR spirits do not die until the final judgment, and then only if you were not in Him.
      That's what
      - She

      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
      - Stephen R. Donaldson

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Jeff View Post
        Alright Sparko, I'll have to keep my posts shorter I guess.

        If a "God the Son" dwelt in Yeshua bodily he would have said "...I am in me and me is in I, I and myself are one...". He would have spoke nothing but what he taught himself and done only those things he saw himself doing. He would have said, "...no one comes to the Son except through me...". Really don't know how men can miss this.

        Consider, Sparko, whether choosing to believe something is what salvation consists of. Truly, absolute knowledge comes by an obedience that comes by faith, just as it is everywhere written. IOW, if we do not know of what we speak it is not Truth that we are speaking... it is the most popular speculation.
        The father and the son are one. The son is in the father and the father is in the son.

        Jesus is called God several times in the bible.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
          No. I wouldn't say that. There is clear evidence that God. who is Spirit, does not die. There is also clear evidence that OUR spirits do not die until the final judgment, and then only if you were not in Him.
          So we have established that there is clear evidence that the God of the bible does not die, We also agree that Jesus died. Therefore Jesus cannot be the God of the bible.

          Comment


          • This is why we can't converse with you lot. I said SPIRIT can't die. We didn't agree on anything.
            That's what
            - She

            Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
            - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

            I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
            - Stephen R. Donaldson

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
              This is why we can't converse with you lot. I said SPIRIT can't die. We didn't agree on anything.
              You said God (who is Spirit ) does not die. If your words mean anything that is equivalent to saying that God does not die. I agree with you on this point. So it’s not true that we don’t agree on anything.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Unitarian101 View Post
                You said God (who is Spirit ) does not die. If your words mean anything that is equivalent to saying that God does not die. I agree with you on this point. So it’s not true that we don’t agree on anything.
                Jesus was both fully man and fully God.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Unitarian101 View Post
                  You said God (who is Spirit ) does not die.
                  Exactly right. SPIRIT does not die.

                  If your words mean anything that is equivalent to saying that God does not die.
                  NO!!! The SPIRIT of God does not die. When God took on human flesh, that FLESH died.

                  I agree with you on this point. So it’s not true that we don’t agree on anything.
                  You've gotten my point horribly wrong. You agree with a straw man of your own making.
                  That's what
                  - She

                  Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                  - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                  I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                  - Stephen R. Donaldson

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                    Exactly right. SPIRIT does not die.



                    NO!!! The SPIRIT of God does not die. When God took on human flesh, that FLESH died.



                    You've gotten my point horribly wrong. You agree with a straw man of your own making.
                    You made the following statement:

                    “There is clear evidence that God. who is Spirit, does not die. “

                    Would you like to amend it ? Because the above English sentence is saying God does not die NOT that the Spirit of God does not die.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      Jesus was both fully man and fully God.
                      Don’t see how that makes a difference. Jesus was one person ( even Trinitarians are agreed on this), and the bible says that he ( the one person) died. So unless you believe the God of the bible can die , I don’t see how Jesus can be the God of the bible.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Unitarian101 View Post
                        You made the following statement:

                        “There is clear evidence that God. who is Spirit, does not die. “

                        Would you like to amend it ? Because the above English sentence is saying God does not die NOT that the Spirit of God does not die.
                        I contrast natures. God is a nature and is Spirit. Human is a nature and is flesh. The nature that is God does not and can not die because it is spirit. The nature that is human does die because it is flesh. Flesh dies. Spirit does not. God the Son died on a cross, meaning his flesh died like all flesh does. His spirit did not die the way His flesh did, therefore, God suffered a mortal death in His flesh, but lives forever in His Spirit.
                        That's what
                        - She

                        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                        - Stephen R. Donaldson

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Unitarian101 View Post
                          Don’t see how that makes a difference. Jesus was one person ( even Trinitarians are agreed on this), and the bible says that he ( the one person) died. So unless you believe the God of the bible can die , I don’t see how Jesus can be the God of the bible.
                          You are trying to use semantic games here. Using your personal definition of death, to determine what the bible means. There are two types of death in the bible. One is the physical death of the body. The spirit does not cease to exist. It lives on. You live on. But where you end up determines whether you suffer spiritual death, which is separation from the Father. At no time does your spirit cease to exist in either case. Even those in hell continue to 'live' forever, but that separation from God is called spiritual death.

                          Jesus suffered physical death on the cross. He also suffered separation from the Father. At no time did the Father die, nor did the Son cease to exist. The Triune God did not cease to exist or die. There was a temporary separation from the Father by the Son as he was forsaken, at least according to some theologians. Jesus visited sheol to set the captives free. Then his body was resurrected and he ascended to be with the Father again.

                          I know that you will not accept this but I post it for others to read.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            You are trying to use semantic games here. Using your personal definition of death, to determine what the bible means. There are two types of death in the bible. One is the physical death of the body. The spirit does not cease to exist. It lives on. You live on. But where you end up determines whether you suffer spiritual death, which is separation from the Father. At no time does your spirit cease to exist in either case. Even those in hell continue to 'live' forever, but that separation from God is called spiritual death.

                            Jesus suffered physical death on the cross. He also suffered separation from the Father. At no time did the Father die, nor did the Son cease to exist. The Triune God did not cease to exist or die. There was a temporary separation from the Father by the Son as he was forsaken, at least according to some theologians. Jesus visited sheol to set the captives free. Then his body was resurrected and he ascended to be with the Father again.

                            I know that you will not accept this but I post it for others to read.
                            You say that “at no time did the Father die nor the son cease to exist.” So you do understand that at no time did God ( albeit the Father ) die, but at some point in time the son ( who apparently also is God) died , though he did not cease to exist. But according to your philosophy this is true of all other humans as well. You would also say that all men die but no man ceases to exist at any time.

                            It’s simple logic:

                            X = to die ( no matter how you wish to define it)

                            God does NOT X
                            Jesus did X
                            Jesus is not God

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                              I contrast natures. God is a nature and is Spirit. Human is a nature and is flesh. The nature that is God does not and can not die because it is spirit. The nature that is human does die because it is flesh. Flesh dies. Spirit does not. God the Son died on a cross, meaning his flesh died like all flesh does. His spirit did not die the way His flesh did, therefore, God suffered a mortal death in His flesh, but lives forever in His Spirit.
                              There are so many dubious statements here that if I addressed them all it would take me hopelessly off course. So I will just deal with the bare basics for now:

                              X = to die ( no matter how you wish to define it)

                              God does NOT X
                              Jesus did X
                              Jesus is not God

                              I don’t see how you can logically ( and biblically) negate above.

                              Comment


                              • The Bible clearly states that Jesus made everything that exists, including angels. Don't pretend to be logical when you can't understand that by process of elimination, that makes Him God. You can't see the truth because you don't want to see the truth. Or, worse, you're like the devil and see the truth, but hate it. Either way, it isn't gunna end well for you unless you repent and act like what you are--God's creation.

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