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Thread: Help me! I'm beginning to abandon the Trinity.

  1. #11
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Ok. What have you looked at in regards to the topic at hand? Have you read the Church Fathers who argued for the deity of Christ (Athanasius) and the Holy Spirit (Basil, Ambrose)? More recently, have you read, e.g., Larry Hurtado's Why on Earth Did Jesus Become a God?
    I didn't look at the Church Fathers' works, but I did look at the works of Robert M. Bowman's works, William Lane Craig, Norman Geisler, and other, and not so, prominent theologians/apologists. I've listened to the debates between James White (Alpha and Omega Ministries) and other Unitarians (like Greg Stafford former JW and Anthony Buzzard). The more I look both into the arguments for the Trinitarian view and the Unitarian view, the more I become convinced that the Unitarian view fits hands and gloves with the biblical data.

  2. #12
    Thanks Old Man... Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGJesus View Post
    I didn't look at the Church Fathers' works, but I did look at the works of Robert M. Bowman's works, William Lane Craig, Norman Geisler, and other, and not so, prominent theologians/apologists. I've listened to the debates between James White (Alpha and Omega Ministries) and other Unitarians (like Greg Stafford former JW and Anthony Buzzard). The more I look both into the arguments for the Trinitarian view and the Unitarian view, the more I become convinced that the Unitarian view fits hands and gloves with the biblical data.
    The article I cited directly answered Buzzard and Stafford.


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

  3. #13
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    What do you think the arguments for the Trinity are?
    This discussion can go in many different directions. But let me point out one insuperable (logical) problem, as I see it, surrounding the God-man nature of Christ. He is said to be both fully God and fully man. When Jesus died on the cross, (1) did the God-man Jesus die? (2) Did the God Jesus die? (3) Did the man Jesus die?

    Different Trinitarians answer these questions differently. I'd like to hear what you answer is.

  4. #14
    Thanks Old Man... Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGJesus View Post
    This discussion can go in many different directions. But let me point out one insuperable (logical) problem, as I see it, surrounding the God-man nature of Christ. He is said to be both fully God and fully man. When Jesus died on the cross, (1) did the God-man Jesus die? (2) Did the God Jesus die? (3) Did the man Jesus die?

    Different Trinitarians answer these questions differently. I'd like to hear what you answer is.
    The God-man Jesus died. Separating the two natures is Nestorianism.


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

  5. #15
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    The article I cited directly answered Buzzard and Stafford.
    How would you argue for the Trinity?

  6. #16
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
    Christ shows us the nature of the Father independent of what you may believe about the Trinity.
    That is all the instruction we need to live well - getting this one doctrine correct isn't a huge deal.

    Christ is God for Dummies.

    So it is okay to take the ole' Trinitarian doctrine out for a spin but don't get hung up on it.
    Do you believe in the Trinity?

  7. #17
    Thanks Old Man... Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGJesus View Post
    How would you argue for the Trinity?
    Point you to Apologia Phoenix's area on here

    http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fo...-Deeper-Waters


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    The God-man Jesus died. Separating the two natures is Nestorianism.
    Are you saying that both God and man in Jesus die? Not the man Jesus?

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Point you to Apologia Phoenix's area on here

    http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fo...-Deeper-Waters
    I'd like to hear how you'd argue for the Trinity, Bill the Cat.

  10. #20
    Thanks Old Man... Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGJesus View Post
    Are you saying that both God and man in Jesus die? Not the man Jesus?
    Does your spirit die when your flesh does?


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

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