Pakistan or Iran Next?

[seanD]

If you've been keeping up with what's going on in the Middle East (and I don't mean just mainstream local news and newspapers), you know that since things are getting worse in Afghanistan and now Pakistan tension and insurgence of the Taliban, Obama increasing troops in Afghanistan, the terrorist extremist scare tactics being raised by the Obama administration and the American media (parroted much like the Bush administration in the days before Iraq) against these countries, the U.S. is gearing up for another military surge in these countries. Israel has expressed intentions of attacking Iran many times. I'm convinced that both showdowns are inevitable.

My question is -- do you think this is inevitable, and if yes, which country will it ignite in first -- Pakistan or Iran? And with Russia and China, who have not only both expressed contention over U.S. occupation in these countries, who have vested interests in Pakistan, and both already having interests vested in Iran, how do you think this will play out?

[Bill the Cat]

Obama doesn't want to ruin his "shaking hands and kissing babies" veneer he's created, so none of the above.

[seanD]

Bill, Obama already expressed a military agenda specifically for Pakistan, which he guised as the ole "Al Queda/Taliban/war on terror" yada yada rhetoric (much like the days before Iraq). Obama is sending more troops to Afghanistan, as I'm sure you know lines right on the boarder of Pakistan. Are you guys completely in the dark about what's going on in the world?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PupX...e=channel_page

The video is long -- a lot of anti-war propaganda I guess -- but there is an Obama news conference buried within it declaring his specific military plans for Pakistan. Obama's address is about at 18:00 in the video.

[Hamster]

It might be better to take Pakistan next. It's positioned next to 2 iron nodes and a wheat node

[Bill the Cat]

Bill, Obama already expressed a military agenda specifically for Pakistan, which he guised as the ole "Al Queda/Taliban/war on terror" yada yada rhetoric (much like the days before Iraq). Obama is sending more troops to Afghanistan, as I'm sure you know lines right on the boarder of Pakistan. Are you guys completely in the dark about what's going on in the world?

21 years of military service and twice recalled to war... I think not. Trust me when I say Obama will do nothing. The troop buildup in Afghanistan will last as long as the withdrawal of troops from Iraq, then the troops will come back from Afghanistan. He spoke to placate his generals.

[seanD]

It might be better to take Pakistan next. It's positioned next to 2 iron nodes and a wheat node

I'm thinking it's totally strategic, and it was that way since Iraq (most people don't know the invasion of Iraq was planned well before 911). It makes sense. We've been long allies with India. We send more troops to Afghanistan. With India's help we neutralize Pakistan. Now we've got troops, along with India (who has nukes), totally surrounding Iran. But it could be the reverse. Attack Iran with Israel, and then Pakistan. Only there are two monster powers to reckon with here -- China and Russia, who I know ain't havin it.

[seanD]

21 years of military service and twice recalled to war... I think not. Trust me when I say Obama will do nothing. The troop buildup in Afghanistan will last as long as the withdrawal of troops from Iraq, then the troops will come back from Afghanistan. He spoke to placate his generals.

Fair enough.

So you're saying Obama is just bluffing?

[Bill the Cat]

Not so much bluffing as being a peacock. Flexing his muscle that he darned well knows he isn't going to use.

[rogue06]

Suddenly Musharraf doesn't look so bad.

[seanD]

Not so much bluffing as being a peacock. Flexing his muscle that he darned well knows he isn't going to use.

Bill, I advise you to get your head out the sand and research this -- seriously, no offense intended. The same political "terrorist" rhetoric that was being used towards Iraq -- the exact same -- is now being used towards Pakistan. US drones are already bombing Al Queda targets dangerously along the Pakistan boarder. What makes you think this is a bluff?

Please tell me this isn't a liberal vs conservative partisan thing.

[Jedidiah]

It might be better to take Pakistan next. It's positioned next to 2 iron nodes and a wheat node

Hamster, I love you.

[Bill the Cat]

Bill, I advise you to get your head out the sand and research this -- seriously, no offense intended. The same political "terrorist" rhetoric that was being used towards Iraq -- the exact same -- is now being used towards Pakistan. US drones are already bombing Al Queda targets dangerously along the Pakistan boarder. What makes you think this is a bluff?

Please tell me this isn't a liberal vs conservative partisan thing.

Rhetoric is just that - talk. IMHO, President Obama has no desire or inclination to actually fight this war. He's cut military spending, and has asked my agency (I work for the Defense Department at the Defense Logistics Agency) to find ways to cut supplier costs. He won't risk offending the doves on the left.

[Philosophickle]

I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, Obama is certainly less likely to attack another nation in the middle of an economic crisis and with a lot of peace hawks out there yet, but he has done some things to make me think he might take some military action.

[seanD]

Bill, politics aren’t run by partisan factions -- i.e. “commies” and “tree-hugging lefties", lmao.

The corporate industries and financial institutions that run the White House could care less about left vs. right, as long as their interests are served. They were there when Bush was in office, and they’re still there. They only became more pronounced when Obama took office (bail-out bill, etc.). Obama’s a front-man false savior, who just happens to have a bit more BS appeal than Bush had. All you’re doing is expressing contempt towards a partisan facade that doesn’t even exist, my friend.

Anyway, so far, everything I've been expecting to happen since Iraq (and of course based on the "Project for a New America" manifesto) has been happening, so I guess we'll have to wait and see. I know for a fact that Moslem nations will continue to be neutralized. I'm just not sure how Russia and China will play into this.

[Hweila]

Rhetoric is just that - talk. IMHO, President Obama has no desire or inclination to actually fight this war. He's cut military spending, and has asked my agency (I work for the Defense Department at the Defense Logistics Agency) to find ways to cut supplier costs. He won't risk offending the doves on the left.

The vast majority of the "doves" on the left are only doves so long as Republican sits in the White House as evidenced by their general support of our military adventures during Clinton's presidency. But even during the Iraq war, the opposition to it from the left was couched almost exclusively in pragmatic rather than moral terms. The war decried as unnecessary and a waste of money, not as something evil or immoral. For better or worse, that sort of strict pacifism seems to have been relegated to the absolute fringes of left-wing politics. It would extremely easy with a President they support in power for a narrative to be crafted whereby the left would support military action in Pakistan.

Now whether or not Obama ultimately has the desire or fortitude to expand the current war in Afghanistan further into Pakistan past lobbing a missile or two at some sheepherders remains to be seen, and I certainly wouldn't consider any such expansion of operation to be certainty or even a likely hood, but it does remain very much a reasonable possibility.