May 17th 2009, 09:34 PM #1
Matthew 24:21,2 and Daniel 12:1,11.Is the yet a greater fufillment of the things that are past?
It has become increasingly difficult as an orthodox/partial Preterist, to believe that the words of Jesus spoken in Matthew 24:21,22 and what is written in Daniel 12:1,11 were completely fulfilled or at all,in A.D 70.Orhtodox/partial Preterists know that the resurrection spoken of in Daniel 12:2 is a yet future event, which takes place at the second coming of Christ.
The abomination of desolation spoken of in Matthew 24:15 and Luke 21:20,was Gentile armies encamping Jerusalem and set for the destruction of it. This was NOT ,nor can it be considered " great tribulation " for believers...For the Christians escaped before the siege of Jerusalem which destroyed the temple.The persecution and killing of believers by Nero and unbelieving Jews of the first century was more likely the tribulation of those days.
I do not see how it is possible that Daniel 12:1 speaks of Michael the arch angel standing and fighting for unbelieving Israel. The Phrase " the children of thy people " is a clear reference to believing Jews and Israelis of that nation...I do not say that Christians of the first century did not escape the siege of Jerusalem,apart from God's help.God may have very well sent Micheal,the prince of angels,to back up and cause Cestius Gallos and his legions to retreat,so that believing Jews and other believers could escape Jerusalem.
Moreover,the retreat of Cestius,is what gave unbelieving Israel the false sense of impending victory over the Roman and allied armies.That is until Titus and his armies came three or so months later,and completely destroyed the Holy city and the temple.However, the scenario of Micheal standing for believers in the first century does not seem to support the context of Daniel 12:1-13.Nor does it matter that the resurrection passage 12:2 is not in Chronological order with the rest of the chapter.
Verse 11 of Daniel chapter 12 speaks of the " daily sacrifice " being taken away,BEFORE the abomination of desolation is set up. The phrase "sacrifice shall be taken away " is Hebrew # 5493 and has the meaning of a turning back or apostasy.So there is not likely a re-built temple where animal sacrifices will be performed in view here.Rather a sanctuary,where prayers, supplications,praise and worship will be to God and the true Messiah,Jesus of Nazareth. Perhaps there will be a future spiritual apostasy taking place before Jerusalem is again in the future,surrounded by gentile armies... Further the word sacrifice (offering) is Hebrew/Aramaic #2077 and is not found in Daniel 12:11 or anywhere else in the book.The only exception is Daniel 9:27,where it speaks of Christ Jesus,causing the animal sacrifices,offerings for sin,to cease being acceptable to God.This took place during the Holy week of the Passover festival.When Jesus was crucified (cut off) in the middle (midst) of the Passover Festival or week of unleaven bread.The Lord Jesus died on the preparation day.This was the same day that the passover lambs were killed in the temple. See 1 Corinthians 5:7.
Think about folks,what could a future huge or mass conversion of Millions and Millions of Jews and Israelis to faith,living in the State of Israel,mean to the world system that is opposed to God? No one can say,for it has never happened before... The fact that Daniel 12:1 is a clear reference to Matthew 24:21,can we as Orthodox Preterists say with all confidence that there is no truth to the orthodox Futurists position? That is,the position of those who do recognize truth, in the fulfillment of most of the Gospel of Matthew 24 and of much of what is written in the book of Revelation taking place before 70 A.D?
No one can deny that the Apostle John used CODE language when referring to the reign of the Roman emperors.Many see Julius Caesar as the first emperor and was the first to be called " Emperator " and so that would make Nero Caesar the 6th and the one who was reigning,when the book of Revelation was written BEFORE A.D 70.
This means that Galba was the seventh emperor and the one who would continue for a short time (space) See Revelation 17:9-11... It is historical fact that Galba reigned for six months...Even if the Apostle John spoke of Galba as the one reigning in chapter 17 the reign of the two that followed him were also short reigns...Nonetheless,i believe that the Apostle John spoke of Nero in 13:18... As such,he was the fifth emperor, minus Julius Caesar that had fallen... Wether or not one believes in the Hebrew system of names by numbers,it is impossible to overlook the fact that Nrwn Qrs, Neron Kaiser and Nero Caesar is 666 or 616 in Hebrew,Latin and Greek...This makes perfect sense,considering that there were Jewish,Greek and Latin (Roman) believers in Christ in the first century.There is no dispute that the Apostle Paul had taken the Gospel to Rome by A.D 61.
Was this not the plan of God that the Apostle Paul a Roman citizen,could appeal his case to the then reigning emperor of Rome ,Nero Caesar Augustus? See Acts 25.There is plenty of historical evidence that the fires of Rome took place during the reign of Nero,who reigned from A.D 54 until his suicide in A.D.68.It is an historical fact that Nero,along with other Pagans persecuted and murdered Christians in Rome in A.D 64.This is even written by Roman and or Greek Pagans,that Nero made a sport and spectacle of his killing Christians,in the most barbaric ways.
No Futurist could deny that Christians were blamed for starting these fires.Nor can they deny the fact that the Apostle Paul was in Rome either in Prison or free,at that time.Surely they would have to dispute with the book of Acts and the date of its writing.Which is widely held to be in A.D 61...Orthodox Preterist do not have to prove anything.
We are to use scripture to interpret scripture and not news papers and current events,sprawled across our television sets.Then what do orthodox Preterist give up in conceding that some things are yet future,or are awaiting complete fulfillment on a grander scale?This cannot make orthodox Preterism or orthodox Futurism false system of beliefs,but the same bridge to truth, that both view points can stand on.
Here are the passages below to consider,wether or not we (orthodox Preterists) are confident that these things found complete or were even fulfilled at all in or by A.D.70 ...I am not a debater,therefore this is not meant to be a debate with anyone.I am not a writer,so i will apologize in advance for mis-spellings and for my failure to write coherently.
For then shall be great tribulation,such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:21
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered,every one that shall be found written in the book. Daniel 12:1
Just a side note: See the clarity of who is the " he " in Daniel 9:27,when reading the passage from the KJV.
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
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