Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness
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Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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For materialists, do you believe that truth exists independent of mind? If so, how?
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Originally posted by JimL View PostYes, there is no such thing as truth apart from reality, there is only reality and what we call truth is the minds correct interpretation of that reality. So, does reality exist independent of the mind, of course it does, it existed prior to the existence of minds.-The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
Sir James Jeans
-This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
Sir Isaac Newton
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Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness View PostSo, did anything true exist before the existence of the mind?Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness View PostBut if you claim that Truth was an empty set, then you're saying that it was true that truth existed as an empty set (it's implicit in the statement).
In a universe with minds, you could potentially have Truth be an empty set. I think, to be valid, you couldn't say "Truth is an empty set" belongs in the set of Truth, though. While technically true, it would invalidate itself immediately. The only way to make a statement about Truth's emptiness that remained valid while making it would be to say "Truth was an empty set." There's definitely some weirdness in here, though (pun not intended).
Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness View PostAlso, if Truth is just a category and does not exist, then there was nothing true about anything before consciousness came to be. So, for example, it was not true that consciousness would eventually exist.I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness View PostSo, did anything true exist before the existence of the mind?
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Originally posted by JimL View PostAgain, truth is not something that exists, reality exists, truth is only the minds correct interpretation of that reality. That question is akin to asking whether or not falsehood existed prior to minds. Truth and falsehood, in and of themselves are not things that exist.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostWhat does not exist in any form is not truth. Yet even falsehoods have a form.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostAgain, truth is not something that exists, reality exists, truth is only the minds correct interpretation of that reality. That question is akin to asking whether or not falsehood existed prior to minds. Truth and falsehood, in and of themselves are not things that exist.
Consequently, nothing was true before the existence of the mind.
* I accidentally amened your post.-The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
Sir James Jeans
-This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
Sir Isaac Newton
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Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness View PostIf something is true, then something exists (i.e. non-existent things do not have properties).
But the only things that can be true are sentences, ideas, propositions etc. and hence, one of these must exist. And they would necessarily be truth.
"Reality" is not a coherent sentence, idea (that could be true) or proposition and hence, cannot be true. "Reality exists" must itself exist in order for it to be true.
Consequently, nothing was true before the existence of the mind.Last edited by shunyadragon; 12-05-2016, 01:34 PM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness View PostIf something is true, then something exists (i.e. non-existent things do not have properties). But the only things that can be true are sentences, ideas, propositions etc. and hence, one of these must exist. And they would necessarily be truth. "Reality" is not a coherent sentence, idea (that could be true) or proposition and hence, cannot be true. "Reality exists" must itself exist in order for it to be true.
Consequently, nothing was true before the existence of the mind.
* I accidentally amened your post.
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Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness View PostIf something is true, then something exists (i.e. non-existent things do not have properties). But the only things that can be true are sentences, ideas, propositions etc. and hence, one of these must exist. And they would necessarily be truth. "Reality" is not a coherent sentence, idea (that could be true) or proposition and hence, cannot be true. "Reality exists" must itself exist in order for it to be true.
Consequently, nothing was true before the existence of the mind.
* I accidentally amened your post.I'm not here anymore.
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