What is the holy spirit?

[wiseman]

Hello all.
I've been wondering what the holy spirit is. Is the holy spirit the same thing as god? If not then in what ways do they differ?

Also is Jesus the same as god too? Are they independent beings or are they the same?In heaven, will there be Jesus and god? Or just god who is also Jesus?

Is the trinity needed? What is the specific role and purpose of each part of the trinity?

Thanks.

[themuzicman]

The Orthodox (and orthodox) position is that God is a triune being. Three persons of one substance and being.

Your best bet is to Google "Nicene Creed" for the church's traditional explanation.

As a short summary, the Holy Spirit is the third member of the trinity who eternally proceeds from the Father (and if you're Catholic, from the Son), and is co-equal, not subordinate with/to the Father.

Likewise, the Son is eternally begotten (not made) from the Father, again co-equal and not subordinate with/to the Father.

They are not independent beings, but are distinct persons (hypostases, if you like Greek) within one God (homousian).

The trinity is the way the Church understands and explains God, even as incomplete as it is (since we really don't know all there is to know about God.)

Are you doing bible school homework?

Michael

[Obsidian]

Of the non-orthodox positions, I find sabellianism more plausible than arianism. The plausibility of sabellianism, to me, is the interchangeability of various persons of the Trinity in certain Bible verses (E.g., the Father is Jesus's father, even though the Holy Spirit conceived him). That, and it's kinda hard for me to figure out what exactly the Father actually does -- because it sometimes seems like Jesus and the Holy Spirit are doing everything.

The main problem with pure sabellianism, of course, is that it would mean Jesus was talking to himself every time he was praying and talking about himself every time he preached.

[tomsawyer25]

Hello all.
I've been wondering what the holy spirit is. Is the holy spirit the same thing as god? If not then in what ways do they differ?

Also is Jesus the same as god too? Are they independent beings or are they the same?In heaven, will there be Jesus and god? Or just god who is also Jesus?

Is the trinity needed? What is the specific role and purpose of each part of the trinity?

Thanks.

Hi Wiseman,

I'm not a theologian, but I love these questions and I'd like to reply. The Spirit is a personage of God, along with the Father and the Son. They share equally in the divine nature, yet are eternally distinct "persons." The Son and Spirit are both a part of God's mind, and a way that God comes near to us.

There is a passage from the Psalms, I can't remember where, which says that God created the heavens and the earth by His "word" and by the "spirit" [breath] of His mouth. That statement kind of gets into the mystery of it a little bit. Afterall, the words which we speak are both word and breath. The word and breath are inseperable, yet they are somehow distinct. Along the same lines, I sometimes think of the Son as the computer information, the Spirit as the moving power of it through the system. Perhaps that is off, but it deals with the same question.

In one model of explaining things, the Spirit is said to be the sanctity, or holiness of God. Some thinkers used the mind itself as a model of the Trinity, the Father being pure knowledge, the Son being the knowledge of that knowledge, and the Spirit being the fulfillment of that interaction coming forth. The Spirit then is the holiness which proceeds from (believe it or not) God knowing God. (You can imagine your own mental interactions to get an immediate, but imperfect model. Afterall, you can know yourself, without being two separate beings.)

It would be a little dodgy to start applying individual aspects of God to each persona of the Trinity. As far as I understand, the Father, Son and Spirit all share in the godly aspects, so we shouldn't try to explain them as individual aspects themselves.

Same thing with roles. We certainly see individual roles being played (only Jesus went to the cross), but in every action of God, all three personas are playing some part. I've had it pointed out to me that there are passages which show the Father, Son and Spirit, all involved in the resurrection. So while we may see individual roles played at times, it is good to figure that all of God is always at work. There is no separating the persons though they are distinct.

Is Jesus God? Yes, absolutely. But that must be said with the caveat, that He is not all of God. God is pure spirit and Jesus is a man. God is beyond time and space. Jesus is wrapped in time and space. Some early thinkers tended to see Jesus as God merely draped in flesh. Others saw Him as an ordinary man adopted by God. The better way to understand, which became Orthodox thinking, is that Jesus is fully God and fully man. He has a nature of God. He has a nature of man. They are united. But they are not mixed.

[The Son] is "the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person." Hebrews 1:3. "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." Colossians 2:9. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the word was God. He was in the beginning with God." John 1:1-2 "He who has seen me has seen the Father." John 14:9.

One final thing which may help, or may hinder, is that God's Word exists in different forms, although it remains one personage. For example, the Word exists in eternity, beyond all time and space. Furthermore, the Word was begotten at the beginning of time and space and maintains the heavenlies. Finally the Word made flesh walked among us in Jesus. I know that sounds like a bit much, but it has helped me a lot with the question. Afterall, even as God comes near to us through the Son and the Spirit, they continue to exist in eternity.

I hope that helps in some way. Don't be frustrated by the ten thousand questions it brings up. Rather enjoy the questions. Study the scripture and think of these things. Read what the great thinkers have said as well. A mystery is not there to send people away for being too stupid, but to invite people to eat at a feast.

Blessings

Tom

[tomsawyer25]

Hello all.
I've been wondering what the holy spirit is. Is the holy spirit the same thing as god? If not then in what ways do they differ?

Also is Jesus the same as god too? Are they independent beings or are they the same?In heaven, will there be Jesus and god? Or just god who is also Jesus?

Is the trinity needed? What is the specific role and purpose of each part of the trinity?

Thanks.

Hi Wiseman,

I'm not a theologian, but I love these questions and I'd like to reply. The Spirit is a personage of God, along with the Father and the Son. They share equally in the divine nature, yet are eternally distinct "persons." The Son and Spirit are both a part of God's mind, and a way that God comes near to us.

There is a passage from the Psalms, I can't remember where, which says that God created the heavens and the earth by His "word" and by the "spirit" [breath] of His mouth. That statement kind of gets into the mystery of it a little bit. Afterall, the words which we speak are both word and breath. The word and breath are inseperable, yet they are somehow distinct. Along the same lines, I sometimes think of the Son as the computer information, the Spirit as the moving power of it through the system. Perhaps that is off, but it deals with the same question.

In one model of explaining things, the Spirit is said to be the sanctity, or holiness of God. Some thinkers used the mind itself as a model of the Trinity, the Father being pure knowledge, the Son being the knowledge of that knowledge, and the Spirit being the fulfillment of that interaction coming forth. The Spirit then is the holiness which proceeds from (believe it or not) God knowing God. (You can imagine your own mental interactions to get an immediate, but imperfect model. Afterall, you can know yourself, without being two separate beings.)

It would be a little dodgy to start applying individual aspects of God to each persona of the Trinity. As far as I understand, the Father, Son and Spirit all share in the godly aspects, so we shouldn't try to explain them as individual aspects themselves.

Same thing with roles. We certainly see individual roles being played (only Jesus went to the cross), but in every action of God, all three personas are playing some part. I've had it pointed out to me that there are passages which show the Father, Son and Spirit, all involved in the resurrection. So while we may see individualy roles played at times, it is good to figure that all of God is always at work. There is no separating the persons though they are distinct.

Is Jesus God? Yes, absolutely. But that must be said with the caveat, that He is not all of God. God is pure spirit and Jesus is a man. God is beyond time and space. Jesus is wrapped in time and space. Some early thinkers tended to see Jesus as God merely draped in flesh. Others saw Him as an ordinary man adopted by God. The better way to understand, which became Orthodox thinking, is that Jesus is fully God and fully man. He has a nature of God. He has a nature of man. They are united. But they are not mixed.

[The Son] is "the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person." Hebrews 1:3. "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." Colossians 2:9. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the word was God. He was in the beginning with God." John 1:1-2 "He who has seen me has seen the Father" John 14:9

One final thing which may help, or may hinder, is that God's Word exists in different forms, although it remains one personage. For example, the Word exists in eternity, beyond all time and space. Furthermore, the Word was begotten at the beginning of time and space and maintains the heavenlies. Finally the Word made flesh walked among us in Jesus. I know that sounds like a bit much, but it has helped me a lot with the question. Afterall, even as God comes near to us through the Son and the Spirit, they continue to exist in eternity.

I hope that helps in some way. Don't be frustrated by the ten thousand questions it brings up. Rather enjoy the questions. Study the scripture and think of these things. Read what the great thinkers have said as well. A mystery is not there to send people away for being too stupid, but to invite people to eat at a feast.

Blessings

Tom

[WoundedEgo]

Hello all.
I've been wondering what the holy spirit is. Is the holy spirit the same thing as god? If not then in what ways do they differ?

Also is Jesus the same as god too? Are they independent beings or are they the same?In heaven, will there be Jesus and god? Or just god who is also Jesus?

Is the trinity needed? What is the specific role and purpose of each part of the trinity?

Thanks.

Hi, wiseman...

I would turn this question around....

When you read your scriptures, do they mention a "trinity?"

Do they say "Jesus is God?"

Do they say "the Holy Spirit is God?"

So there is your answer.

Bill Ross

[barnstomper]

Hello
this is how I view the Trinity, In the beginning there was God, and not just God but His Word, and not just his Word but His Wisdom. The Fathers Word and Wisdom are apart of him yet they are separate. Even though they are separate they are one and one will not contradict the other. So what is said in the old testament as far as commandments still apply today in fact the Word raised the bar by letting us know not only must we keep the Law Physically but keep in our hearts. Wow

[Jeff74]

According the gospel of John the Holy Spirit is a Person.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Jesus implies in the next verse that the Spirit is none other than Himself.

John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Jesus says He will not leave us comfortless, but that He would come to us. The Holy Spirit is also known as the Comforter.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Here we see that the Holy Ghost is a divine Teacher. He reminds us of the words of Jesus.

It is also interesting that Jesus states that the Father will send the Holy Ghost in His name. Here is another passage where Jesus is the One doing the sending.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Jesus sends the Spirit from the Father. The Spirit proceeds from the Father.

In that verse, we also read that the Spirit will testify of Jesus: he shall testify of me.

The Holy Spirit has several ministries.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.


In His ministry to the world, He reproves the world of sin, righteousness and judgment.

We have already seen that He is a teacher to believers in Christ (disciples). Further confirmation is found in the new understanding that the Spirit gives to believers.

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

This understanding comes from the Holy Spirit. And it is an exclusive understanding available only to those who belong to Christ (they have the Spirit).

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


The Holy Spirit convicts the world, and He teaches us (who believe). He also guarantees our salvation all the way to the end.

Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

The Holy Spirit is called both the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

It also states here that without the Spirit, you do not belong to Christ.

While a lot of emphasis is placed on the gifts of the Spirit, we are not told to look at the gifts as evidence of one's salvation. Many of these can be a counterfeit. What we are told to look for, however, is fruit.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

The Holy Spirit works in us to produce what is known as the fruit of the Spirit:

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

In fact, that is the purpose of His working in us. To produce fruit.

John 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

The Holy Spirit helps us in rightly addressing God.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

The Holy Spirit does not testify of Himself: We need to be careful here. Denominations that emphasize the Holy Spirit rather than Christ may be mistaken in their central focus (that is probably an understatement).

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Whenever a spirit begins to testify of himself, rather than Christ, that should be a red flag. We are told that there are other spirits out there and that they should be tested.

1John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

The only unpardonable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Matthew12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

In the context of that passage, the Pharisees accused Jesus of working by the power of Satan. Attributing to the devil the works of the Spirit is what they did. Jesus then gave the warning in the verses above.

While the Spirit works in us and enables us to rightly address God, I am unaware of any passage in the Bible where we are told to worship the Spirit. We worship IN spirit and in truth; we worship through the Spirit, but I have not yet found any place in Scripture where the Spirit is presented as an object of worship and adoration.

Jesus Christ is to be glorified. The Spirit testifies of Jesus Christ. His is the name above all names, and to Him be all honor, glory, dominion, power and praise. Glory to God in the highest!

[Fuzzkins]

From what I understand, the Trinity also has to do with the fact that God is love. In His essence He defines what love is, such as that it is something that is given and shared with another, and which both can freely give to a third party. Adding more to the Trinity would be redundant in that the third posit would be restated (plus, then it wouldn't be a Trinity!), and taking away one would ruin the definition.

I would also say that it is a safe thing to state that the Holy Spirit is the part of the Trinity that is, to use any word, what God uses to "channel" Himself through us. I don't even feel comfortable with that explanation, but that's what I'm giving!

[Spookeh70]

For a great read that deals largely with the Trinity as well as human suffering, check out "The Shack" by William P. Young.

It's a fictional story, but the author, in my opinion, has a great working knowledge of scripture. He is adept at explaining many of the concepts of the Trinity in layman's terms through the medium of a written drama.

[sonnyboy]

I would suggest that there might not be simply a single Holy Spirit. This might be just another of theologians common assumptions. Clearly, there are numerous holy spirits just as there are multiple evil spirits. There is a father of spirits which point out that they are manifold. The question to me is which passages refer to the same HOLY SPIRIT and which are distinct from it.

[sonnyboy]

I really wonder about this title Holy Spirit. It just seems to me that there are many evil spirits and many holy spirits. I have come to the conclusion that The Holy Spirit referred to in the baptismal name is that of Jesus Christ (The Spirit of Christ). That Spirit did not exist until Jesus was glorified which indicates that Holy Spirit referenced earlier where not that particular Spirit.

[Christum]

At the very outset of his mission Jesus echoed the words of Isaiah: “The Spirit of the Lord … has anointed me … to proclaim freedom for the prisoners, give sight to the blind and free the downtrodden from their oppressors.” Luke 4:18–19. Here it is implied that the Holy Spirit is the spiritual source of the compassion that animated Christ's entire mission. In Mark 3:30 Jesus confirms that the Holy Spirit is the source of his miracles which were mainly acts of compassion directed at relieving suffering. When Jesus referred to sins against the Holy Spirit that "can never be forgiven" he was in fact referring to sins against compassion, sins of gross and callous inhumanity.

In Hebrew, the gender of theword for spirit, ruah, is feminine and the word compassion translates as 'womb'. The gnostic gospel of Thomas, Jesus actually depicts the Holy Spirit as feminine and the wisdom literature of the Hebrew bible personnified God's compassion as a female entity known as Sophia.

Thus the trinity could be understood as God (the divine figurehead) being represented in female form by the Holy Spirit (the compassionate womb of creation) and in male form by Jesus (the ultimate judge of humanity at the second coming)

[Christum]

Hello all.
I've been wondering what the holy spirit is. Is the holy spirit the same thing as god? If not then in what ways do they differ?

Also is Jesus the same as god too? Are they independent beings or are they the same?In heaven, will there be Jesus and god? Or just god who is also Jesus?

Is the trinity needed? What is the specific role and purpose of each part of the trinity?

Thanks.

At the very outset of his mission Jesus echoed the words of Isaiah: “The Spirit of the Lord … has anointed me … to proclaim freedom for the prisoners, give sight to the blind and free the downtrodden from their oppressors.” Luke 4:18–19. Here it is implied that the Holy Spirit is the spiritual source of the compassion that animated Christ's entire mission. In Mark 3:30 Jesus confirms that the Holy Spirit is the source of his miracles which were mainly acts of compassion directed at relieving suffering. When Jesus referred to sins against the Holy Spirit that "can never be forgiven" he was in fact referring to sins against compassion, sins of gross and callous inhumanity.

In Hebrew, the gender of theword for spirit, ruah, is feminine and the word compassion translates as 'womb'. The gnostic gospel of Thomas, Jesus actually depicts the Holy Spirit as feminine and the wisdom literature of the Hebrew bible personnified God's compassion as a female entity known as Sophia.

Thus the trinity could be understood as God (the divine figurehead) being represented in female form by the Holy Spirit (the compassionate womb of creation) and in male form by Jesus (the ultimate judge of humanity at the second coming)

[Christum]

At the very outset of his mission Jesus echoed the words of Isaiah: “The Spirit of the Lord … has anointed me … to proclaim freedom for the prisoners, give sight to the blind and free the downtrodden from their oppressors.” Luke 4:18–19. Here it is implied that the Holy Spirit is the spiritual source of the compassion that animated Christ's entire mission. In Mark 3:30 Jesus confirms that the Holy Spirit is the source of his miracles which were mainly acts of compassion directed at relieving suffering. When Jesus referred to sins against the Holy Spirit that "can never be forgiven" he was in fact referring to sins against compassion, sins of gross and callous inhumanity.

In Hebrew, the gender of theword for spirit, ruah, is feminine and the word compassion translates as 'womb'. The gnostic gospel of Thomas, Jesus actually depicts the Holy Spirit as feminine and the wisdom literature of the Hebrew bible personnified God's compassion as a female entity known as Sophia.

Thus the trinity could be understood as God (the divine figurehead) being represented in female form by the Holy Spirit (the compassionate womb of creation) and in male form by Jesus (the ultimate judge of humanity at the second coming)