Originally posted by rogue06
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Originally posted by hansgeorg View PostOr bishop elect.
I think even your community, while schismatic, accepts that St Ambrose was a saint, and as is well known, he was not just elected "bishop of Milan" before being "a bishop", but even before being a baptised Christian.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostYes, St. Ambrose was elected to be the bishop of Milan while still a catechumen; so was Nectarius, the patriarch of Constantinople who succeeded St. Gregory the Theologian. However, a bishop elect is not a bishop.
It has happened that a bishop elect has had to wait for a bishop to arrive to consecrate him, this has in our tradition meant that non-bishop priests have had to do the liturgic stuff, as much as can be done without a bishop, while the bishop elect can already set conflicts at rest by judging.
That would basically have been Pope Michael's position between 1990 and 2011, if he was right (I have also considered whether he was originally an antipope who later became Pope by default, like if there was a Pope Krav in Zagreb - but though that was included in a Greek man's list of para-Catholic movements, it seems to have been a joke, not a serious claim).http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html
Thanks, Sparko, for telling how I add the link here!
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostGood grief this has turned into a discussion of the sedevacantist thesis?
A sedevacantist like Father Cekada does not subscribe to any orthopapist or alteropapist thesis.
This became a discussion of the orthopapist (or some would say alteropapist) thesis that Pope Michael was Pope elect from 1990 to 2011 and since 2011 even Pope more normally, since ordained and consecrated bishop that year.
Some had not grasped that a layman could be Pope or Bishop elect.http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html
Thanks, Sparko, for telling how I add the link here!
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Originally posted by hansgeorg View PostA bishop elect, according to Catholic theology, may already do some - non-liturgic - duties of a bishop, like judging.
It has happened that a bishop elect has had to wait for a bishop to arrive to consecrate him, this has in our tradition meant that non-bishop priests have had to do the liturgic stuff, as much as can be done without a bishop, while the bishop elect can already set conflicts at rest by judging.
That would basically have been Pope Michael's position between 1990 and 2011, if he was right (I have also considered whether he was originally an antipope who later became Pope by default, like if there was a Pope Krav in Zagreb - but though that was included in a Greek man's list of para-Catholic movements, it seems to have been a joke, not a serious claim).
By the way, Michael IS a joke. Less than ten "electors", including himself?Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostWhy? The locum tenens would handle that.
Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostYou only need one bishop to consecrate another? That goes against rather venerable tradition. Generally, three are needed; that way, one kook can't consecrate many other kooks.
By the way, Michael IS a joke. Less than ten "electors", including himself?
As to "you need" - that is for canonical licitness, not for sacramental validity.
And if those sede bishops had been around back then, someone already sacramentally a bishop would have been elected.
I am also not sure whether it was one or two bishops who consecrated Pope Michael, I think two, while the principal would have been an Ukrainean with episcopal orders from Brazilian Apostolic Church/Duarte Costa.http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html
Thanks, Sparko, for telling how I add the link here!
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