Is the Stationary Earth the Heaviest Object in the Universe?

[Roy]

If he was baptized before the age of three it would have been in Austria where he was born.

Shhh... I'm trying to invoke Godwin

[One Bad Pig]

Or bishop elect.

I think even your community, while schismatic, accepts that St Ambrose was a saint, and as is well known, he was not just elected "bishop of Milan" before being "a bishop", but even before being a baptised Christian.

Yes, St. Ambrose was elected to be the bishop of Milan while still a catechumen; so was Nectarius, the patriarch of Constantinople who succeeded St. Gregory the Theologian. However, a bishop elect is not a bishop.

[hansgeorg]

Yes, St. Ambrose was elected to be the bishop of Milan while still a catechumen; so was Nectarius, the patriarch of Constantinople who succeeded St. Gregory the Theologian. However, a bishop elect is not a bishop.

A bishop elect, according to Catholic theology, may already do some - non-liturgic - duties of a bishop, like judging.

It has happened that a bishop elect has had to wait for a bishop to arrive to consecrate him, this has in our tradition meant that non-bishop priests have had to do the liturgic stuff, as much as can be done without a bishop, while the bishop elect can already set conflicts at rest by judging.

That would basically have been Pope Michael's position between 1990 and 2011, if he was right (I have also considered whether he was originally an antipope who later became Pope by default, like if there was a Pope Krav in Zagreb - but though that was included in a Greek man's list of para-Catholic movements, it seems to have been a joke, not a serious claim).

[Leonhard]

Good grief this has turned into a discussion of the sedevacantist thesis?

[hansgeorg]

Good grief this has turned into a discussion of the sedevacantist thesis?

Not exactly.

A sedevacantist like Father Cekada does not subscribe to any orthopapist or alteropapist thesis.

This became a discussion of the orthopapist (or some would say alteropapist) thesis that Pope Michael was Pope elect from 1990 to 2011 and since 2011 even Pope more normally, since ordained and consecrated bishop that year.

Some had not grasped that a layman could be Pope or Bishop elect.

[One Bad Pig]

A bishop elect, according to Catholic theology, may already do some - non-liturgic - duties of a bishop, like judging.

Why? The locum tenens would handle that.

It has happened that a bishop elect has had to wait for a bishop to arrive to consecrate him, this has in our tradition meant that non-bishop priests have had to do the liturgic stuff, as much as can be done without a bishop, while the bishop elect can already set conflicts at rest by judging.

That would basically have been Pope Michael's position between 1990 and 2011, if he was right (I have also considered whether he was originally an antipope who later became Pope by default, like if there was a Pope Krav in Zagreb - but though that was included in a Greek man's list of para-Catholic movements, it seems to have been a joke, not a serious claim).

You only need one bishop to consecrate another? That goes against rather venerable tradition. Generally, three are needed; that way, one kook can't consecrate many other kooks.

By the way, Michael IS a joke. Less than ten "electors", including himself?

[hansgeorg]

Why? The locum tenens would handle that.

For Rome that would be Camerlengo - or Pope elect.

You only need one bishop to consecrate another? That goes against rather venerable tradition. Generally, three are needed; that way, one kook can't consecrate many other kooks.

By the way, Michael IS a joke. Less than ten "electors", including himself?

He tried to get more electors and eligibles. Later some sede bishops caught wind of his idea and tried it on their own.

As to "you need" - that is for canonical licitness, not for sacramental validity.

And if those sede bishops had been around back then, someone already sacramentally a bishop would have been elected.

I am also not sure whether it was one or two bishops who consecrated Pope Michael, I think two, while the principal would have been an Ukrainean with episcopal orders from Brazilian Apostolic Church/Duarte Costa.