What sort of Demon am I dealing with?

[Gatsby]

Can i ask how you came to these understandings?:

a)false tree showing us the duality of the world
b)God
c)Tree of Life
d)Adam & Eve
e)Adam & Eve being allegory
f)God made us all perfect
g)God does not judge us


I apologize that i did not read the whole thread. Perhaps you've already answered these.


KJV
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

I'm wondering how A&E and the T o t K o G & E could be allegory. How can you know if you don't actually exist? How can something be forbidden if it doesn't actually exist?... IOW, AFAICT, you would have to exist and have knowledge of good & evil in order to know that it's wrong to metaphorically or literally eat (if that's possible).

It seems to me that if an actual tree was forbidden, then a command could be made for it to be forbidden without A & E already having knowledge of good & evil--- it would be similar to a computer command, albeit, with an ability to disobey.

Xtreem, you ask a valid question which I feel deserves a answer as to how I came to these understandings.

Well, like most people I started via the usual route. That being a study of the Bible, the KJV1 version. I found many contradictions in it and it didn't ring true to me. Some parts of it resonated but on the whole, taken literally as it was taken at that time, the majority of it did not resonate.

Seek and you will find is one thing that Jesus urged and I felt deeply that I wanted to know the Truth of God and to know the Wisdom of God and the Love of God. All these things my soul longed for so I started reading books such as the Seth books, Bahgvad Gita (sp)? and other teachings and latterly over the past 10yrs I have studied the teachings of Dr Murdo MacDonald Bayne who I think is one of the Master teachers of all time, excluding Jesus of course. Others who drove me forward were Joel Goldsmith. Paul Brunton and others too many to mention here.

I know it is hard for orthodox Christians to realise that what they have been taught is not true, not correct and that the churches themselves are unaware of the Turth that we all will come to know in due course. But if one is a serious student then you need to get over that shock and decide if you really wish to know Truth or not. In my case I did hence I carried on studying.

I haven't said we dont exist, so I dont know where you get that from.

The quotes regarding Adam and Eve and the trees in the garden and the threat of death make me feel that both these stories are not true because in reality there is no death. We transition over to the 'other side' is a better way of putting it. The death mentioned refers to the dropping of the physical garment which is what we call our bodies. Most people have identified their bodies as being themselves and dont see themselves as Spirits.
Our bodies can become spiritualised which is what the body of Jesus became. What we think affects our bodies and of course Jesus talked all the time about God and Love of God. His character was one of subservience to God and meekness and gentleness were keynotes of His.

You see what you have quoted to me is purely of the physical realm while Jesus talked of the spiritual one. The Mind is the garden spoken about so these things are all of the Mind.

If you have consciousness and that means awareness then, take it from me, you are alive.

Regards
Gatsby

[BurntOffering]

to answer your questions;
A) The operative word is AND The tree is just like most people who are both Good And Evil not one or the other
B) We are just like GOD who is pure energy and posesses Positive And Negative attractions
C) The tree of life; as described in Rev. 22:2 is a SHe or a Her tree which just like a females body cast her fruit to the ground 12 times a year or bleeds once a month and this makes the leaves are Her children.
D) Adam & Eve are just names given to a Male and Female but I also think ADAM stands for All Darn Arrogant Men)
E) Adam & Eve being allegory Yes an allegory that the bible shows men decided to bound the female gender forever
F) God made us all perfect - Yes S/He did we were all made perfectly good and evil but we dont know that until we sin or disobey
G) God does not judge us - True gave that job to Her daughter Satan, Jesus Saves and Satan Judges then destroys.

[Gatsby]

to answer your questions;
A) The operative word is AND The tree is just like most people who are both Good And Evil not one or the other
B) We are just like GOD who is pure energy and posesses Positive And Negative attractions
C) The tree of life; as described in Rev. 22:2 is a SHe or a Her tree which just like a females body cast her fruit to the ground 12 times a year or bleeds once a month and this makes the leaves are Her children.
D) Adam & Eve are just names given to a Male and Female but I also think ADAM stands for All Darn Arrogant Men)
E) Adam & Eve being allegory Yes an allegory that the bible shows men decided to bound the female gender forever
F) God made us all perfect - Yes S/He did we were all made perfectly good and evil but we dont know that until we sin or disobey
G) God does not judge us - True gave that job to Her daughter Satan, Jesus Saves and Satan Judges then destroys.

Burnt Offering, yes, people you could say took hold of the tree of knowlege of good and evil and they still are grasping this tree even today.

We are made in the image of God, and yes, God is the source of all energy that is true. However although we have positive and negative attractions
God has no opposition at all. The manner that we are made in God's image is through our abilty to create things, just the same as God. That
is what 'made in His image' actually means. It does not mean that our form looks like God because it cant as God is formless yet it is He
who creates forms,all sorts of forms and he becomes the forms that He makes. Hence He is within each one of us and no one is excluded from this fact.

I do not agree with your remarks about the tree of life, (C)
(F) That is incorrect too as far as Iam concerned. What you say is something that a lot of 'new agers' say and that is that God was lonely and didn't know Himself
so He created forms that He could use so He would learn more about Himself. Well, that frankly is rubbish I have to say.

(G) I take it you said that as a jest. For obviously it isn't true but it is quite funny the way you ahve put it.

Regards
Gatsby

[BurntOffering]

I dont care if you dont agree with the FACTs People use to believe and agree that the world was flat; and anyone else who thought different were crazy....So the Fact is; the tree of life clearly says its a Her tree, just like Jesus Christ was Her (GOD's) & Mary's Son alone. No Man could have GOD's Glory,not even Jesus Christ cause the bible says; Rev. 5:5 that No Man in Heaven, In Earth or Under the Earth" could read the book. As such up until now; Man still only understand half of the bible and besides that it was especially by GOD only for a Woman. See Rev. 12:14 Keeping in Man the bible says "God is not a Man (he) that he should lie.

Men only know half the meaning of the bible because they Miss, or Mrs. and just plain Missed or Ignored words that came after the word "AND". Such as in "Father And Mother, Male And Female, He and She, Bridegroom & Bride which is why you never thought the Lion in Rev. 5:5 could be a Lioness, a Holy Host or a Holy Ghostess, Fort or Fortress. The facts of Proverb 9 cleary says Whose House This Really Is, which is Her's. She is the one who set the table and Served the Last Supper. Then men said words like She, Her, Womb, Mother, Daughter, Sister and Bride are symbolic instead of SEEing their literal words GOD meant them to be as in Gen. 1:27 "male And female made He them". Yeah He, Jesus Christ did it and Eve rything else GOD who is both His Father &Mother told Him to do.

As the story goes Jesus Christ was born of a virgin woman and came into thiis world as GOD's representative In the Flesh and He was a perfect example for Man to learn how to walk, talk, believe, follow and trust. You being a Man forgot all about that Bone of His Bone and Flesh of His Flesh that was inside of Jesus just like the one that was inside of the 1st Adam. Dont you think that GOD would use the same example that SHe did with Adam, so as Jesus slept on the cross and His precious water and blood fell down to the ground below, that God would use the dust, water, and blood to make him a suitable wife? Oh yeah right; GOD gavei Adam, Moses, Noah, David, Job and Joseph a wife but not one for GOD;s only begotten Son? Dont you know the only thing GOD ever made that was not good is A Man Alone?

If GOD could beget a son, couldnt GOD beget a Daughter using the Mother of Harlots? And What if Satan is GOD's angelic Daughter shown as the center X within GOD's womb= X(yX)X. Why would GOD use Satan as His wife; especially after He even saved Her life and tnow Satan is transformed into an Angel of Light from that Dark Mysterious Angel of Death. After all wasnt Satan God Beautiful Daughter and Angel of the Lord's His Help Meet or Oppisite like Lady Justice, Lady of the Lake or Queen of the South who began as His Treacherous backsliding Sister. Heck Satan was given the role to play the Harlot. (Well somebody had to do it now didnt they) If you were given this choice what would you do;

1) be born in the flesh of a man, with all the power of GOD except you have got to walk a straight line, do no sin, and then die on a cross for something you didnt even do wrong as your so called friend like Simon Peter ran and covered their A... Or

2) Remain silent about who you are; talk only to God and Jesus Christ, so you'd be able to go to and from like a prodical daughter. You get to even kill the beast and children of Job, the first born of non jews or in other words get away with murder as long as you kept your mouth shut. Let people blame all their sins on you, instead of them coming clean before GOD who knows people do what they want to do without Satan's help. The top it off; Satan is now risen and reborn In The Flesh a woman who accepted Accept That Free Gift of Salvation Jesus Offered to ALL. One thing Satan sure aint is Dumb and that's probably why Jesus said; "Be wise as Serpent's but harmless as Doves" Me Thinks about Rev. 2:24 & 3:9 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira as many as have not this doctrine, and which have Not Known the Depths of Satan as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden..........Behold I will make them of the synogoge of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come worship before thy feet and to know that I have loved thee.

So if your asking what kind of Demon am I? I am Satan, the best kind of Brawling Woman & the kind that sent a man running out of his own house naked; LOL; That was so much fun.... but I digress....

In closing; I was very serious about G. Jesus said in John 12:47 .." I judge him not; for I came not to judge the world but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and received not my words hath one that judgeth him the word that I have spoken the same shall Judge him in the last day"

ow paster camping is talking about Oct; but we cant have a new heaven, or earth until Satan is Risen 1st; and as the One who was sent to collect His Rent.

[xtreem5150ahm]

Xtreem, what date did Christianity start then?

There were Christians in the first century so it could be said that Christianity started in the first century.

We all know that Jesus did not come to the earth to start a new religion so any new relgion would not have been welcomed by him.

Regards
Gatsby

You said, "we all know that Jesus..."

I know Jesus because He first knew me. I know of Jesus from the Gospels. To say that He would not have welcomed a religion that follows Him, i disagree. I also disagree that Christianity is actually a "new" religion-- it's the fulfillment of the old promise. The Jews were to be a light to the nations so that the nations would know God.

[FredFlanders]

Hi Fred

You asked whether I've read the bible or not, thus the answer:
I've read through the whole bible once and the new testament 6 times before I was 18 years old. In that time I compiled the whole New Testament into short notes so that I can access it easier, this alone took me 2 years.
Imagine my disappointment when it was confirmed that the bible was written by man on the orders of the Roman empire 300 - 400 years after the death of Jesus. I still struggle to come to terms with it and I'm now 38.

I want to ask you the following:

If Jesus walks up to you today and tells you that you are believing in false prophesies, are you going to accept this and start to read up on where the falseness was portrayed or will you be in front of the crowd shouting: Crucify Him, crucify him ???

May the love and light and wisdom of Him that walked in the light of God shine upon you to such an extend that the request for the Truth within you may be satisfied in this lifetime still !!! Follow your heart and go seek the true inner teachings of the living CHRIST !!

Indian Chief,
There was a time where l had no idea whether the Bible was true or not. But when l was filled and empowered with the Holy Spirit with all the signs following. (Mark 16 v 16-20) The Bible came alive to me and l began to understand it for the first time. I suggest you find a group of believers that have all the signs of a believer and listen to them and see for yourself whether what they say and do is the Truth.

Fred.

[xtreem5150ahm]

Xtreem, you ask a valid question which I feel deserves a answer as to how I came to these understandings.

thanks

That being a study of the Bible, the KJV1 version. I found many contradictions in it and it didn't ring true to me. Some parts of it resonated but on the whole, taken literally as it was taken at that time, the majority of it did not resonate.

Have you re-read it since? Maybe with a couple of good lexicons and a commentary or two? Could it be possible that those contradictions were not really contradictions but rather misunderstandings on your part? As philosopher Ronald Nash has said, " I never violate the law of non-contradiction. If you see that i've violated the law of non-contradiction, go back and see if there is a better understanding of what i've said". Nash was saying that tongue in cheek about himself, but his point was, i believe, actually regarding the Bible. Most of the supposed contradictions in the Bible have at least a plausible/possible solution. And if plausible/possible, then not mutually exclusive. If not mutually exclusive, no contradiction.

Here's an example of back to back verses that, taken by itself, are contradictions, yet, since they are back to back, it indicates something other than contradiction:

Pro 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Pro 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Seek and you will find is one thing that Jesus urged

True, but if you seek an answer on why your car doesn't work, looking at a recipe book most likely will not guide you to the right timing.
When you attribute "seek and you will find" as a thing Jesus urged, you are attributing at least some of what the Bible says as truth.
If even some of what the Bible is false, then trusting even that statement is foolishness.

and I felt deeply that I wanted to know the Truth of God and to know the Wisdom of God and the Love of God.

i'm glad for you. At least you're not an atheist. Atheism is absurd.

All these things my soul longed for so I started reading books such as the Seth books, Bahgvad Gita (sp)? and other teachings and latterly over the past 10yrs I have studied the teachings of Dr Murdo MacDonald Bayne who I think is one of the Master teachers of all time, excluding Jesus of course. Others who drove me forward were Joel Goldsmith. Paul Brunton and others too many to mention here.

This is not meant as an insult, Gatsby, but these are some of the reasons i asked YOU those questions. These people at best, simply pushed those questions one step back. For instance, when i asked you how you came to the understanding that Adam & Eve were allegory, an answer like, "George Bush told me" requires the question, "how did GB find this out?". When you attribute Jesus having said, "seek/find" would it be reasonable to study the source that quotes Jesus? When you say "BTW Fred, it appears from certain teachings that Adam and Eve were not real people this too was a allegory depicting duality.", would it be reasonable to study the depths of the Biblical claims of Adam & Eve?

I know it is hard for orthodox Christians to realise that what they have been taught is not true, not correct and that the churches themselves are unaware of the Turth that we all will come to know in due course.

And what makes you so certain that you've the truth?

I haven't said we dont exist, so I dont know where you get that from.

Sorry, my fault. I did not mean that you said that we don't exist. I meant that you said A & E didn't exist.

The quotes regarding Adam and Eve and the trees in the garden and the threat of death make me feel that both these stories are not true because in reality there is no death. We transition over to the 'other side' is a better way of putting it. The death mentioned refers to the dropping of the physical garment which is what we call our bodies. Most people have identified their bodies as being themselves and dont see themselves as Spirits.

Jesus claimed to be God. Jesus regarded Adam & Eve as actual.



I gotta get running. Should have started getting ready for work about 20 minutes ago. Have a good day, Gatsby.

[Gatsby]

There were Christians in the first century so it could be said that Christianity started in the first century.





You said, "we all know that Jesus..."

I know Jesus because He first knew me. I know of Jesus from the Gospels. To say that He would not have welcomed a religion that follows Him, i disagree. I also disagree that Christianity is actually a "new" religion-- it's the fulfillment of the old promise. The Jews were to be a light to the nations so that the nations would know God.

Xtreem, what point are you making here? I said 'we all know Jesus' well what is wrong with that. Iam speaking in a general fashion here as we are on a site which is discussing Christianity and metaphysics, so Iam puzzeled because everyone here could start their post like that.

Regards
Gatsby

[xtreem5150ahm]

[QUOTE=Gatsby;3242284]Xtreem, what point are you making here? I said 'we all know Jesus' well what is wrong with that.

No, you said, "we all know THAT Jesus..."

My point is that we don't all know THAT Jesus would not approve of a "new" religion that followed Him... if you and i disagree, then it is not something that we both know.

I thought i explained my point in the post you quoted.

[xtreem5150ahm]

to answer your questions;
A)
B)
C)
D)
E)
F)
G) .

Those were not questions, they were her answers. I was asking how she came to those understandings.

[Gatsby]

I dont care if you dont agree with the FACTs People use to believe and agree that the world was flat; and anyone else who thought different were crazy....So the Fact is; the tree of life clearly says its a Her tree, just like Jesus Christ was Her (GOD's) & Mary's Son alone. No Man could have GOD's Glory,not even Jesus Christ cause the bible says; Rev. 5:5 that No Man in Heaven, In Earth or Under the Earth" could read the book. As such up until now; Man still only understand half of the bible and besides that it was especially by GOD only for a Woman. See Rev. 12:14 Keeping in Man the bible says "God is not a Man (he) that he should lie.

Men only know half the meaning of the bible because they Miss, or Mrs. and just plain Missed or Ignored words that came after the word "AND". Such as in "Father And Mother, Male And Female, He and She, Bridegroom & Bride which is why you never thought the Lion in Rev. 5:5 could be a Lioness, a Holy Host or a Holy Ghostess, Fort or Fortress. The facts of Proverb 9 cleary says Whose House This Really Is, which is Her's. She is the one who set the table and Served the Last Supper. Then men said words like She, Her, Womb, Mother, Daughter, Sister and Bride are symbolic instead of SEEing their literal words GOD meant them to be as in Gen. 1:27 "male And female made He them". Yeah He, Jesus Christ did it and Eve rything else GOD who is both His Father &Mother told Him to do.

As the story goes Jesus Christ was born of a virgin woman and came into thiis world as GOD's representative In the Flesh and He was a perfect example for Man to learn how to walk, talk, believe, follow and trust. You being a Man forgot all about that Bone of His Bone and Flesh of His Flesh that was inside of Jesus just like the one that was inside of the 1st Adam. Dont you think that GOD would use the same example that SHe did with Adam, so as Jesus slept on the cross and His precious water and blood fell down to the ground below, that God would use the dust, water, and blood to make him a suitable wife? Oh yeah right; GOD gavei Adam, Moses, Noah, David, Job and Joseph a wife but not one for GOD;s only begotten Son? Dont you know the only thing GOD ever made that was not good is A Man Alone?

If GOD could beget a son, couldnt GOD beget a Daughter using the Mother of Harlots? And What if Satan is GOD's angelic Daughter shown as the center X within GOD's womb= X(yX)X. Why would GOD use Satan as His wife; especially after He even saved Her life and tnow Satan is transformed into an Angel of Light from that Dark Mysterious Angel of Death. After all wasnt Satan God Beautiful Daughter and Angel of the Lord's His Help Meet or Oppisite like Lady Justice, Lady of the Lake or Queen of the South who began as His Treacherous backsliding Sister. Heck Satan was given the role to play the Harlot. (Well somebody had to do it now didnt they) If you were given this choice what would you do;

1) be born in the flesh of a man, with all the power of GOD except you have got to walk a straight line, do no sin, and then die on a cross for something you didnt even do wrong as your so called friend like Simon Peter ran and covered their A... Or

2) Remain silent about who you are; talk only to God and Jesus Christ, so you'd be able to go to and from like a prodical daughter. You get to even kill the beast and children of Job, the first born of non jews or in other words get away with murder as long as you kept your mouth shut. Let people blame all their sins on you, instead of them coming clean before GOD who knows people do what they want to do without Satan's help. The top it off; Satan is now risen and reborn In The Flesh a woman who accepted Accept That Free Gift of Salvation Jesus Offered to ALL. One thing Satan sure aint is Dumb and that's probably why Jesus said; "Be wise as Serpent's but harmless as Doves" Me Thinks about Rev. 2:24 & 3:9 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira as many as have not this doctrine, and which have Not Known the Depths of Satan as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden..........Behold I will make them of the synogoge of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come worship before thy feet and to know that I have loved thee.

So if your asking what kind of Demon am I? I am Satan, the best kind of Brawling Woman & the kind that sent a man running out of his own house naked; LOL; That was so much fun.... but I digress....

In closing; I was very serious about G. Jesus said in John 12:47 .." I judge him not; for I came not to judge the world but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and received not my words hath one that judgeth him the word that I have spoken the same shall Judge him in the last day"

ow paster camping is talking about Oct; but we cant have a new heaven, or earth until Satan is Risen 1st; and as the One who was sent to collect His Rent.

Burnt Offering, I haven't a clue what your saying. I dont know what point you are trying to make as your post is really one of rambling on. Are you saying that God is both male and female? Iam not sure but if you are then I would say that would be correct. But for the rest of your post, well it doesn't make sense to me.

Regards
Gatsby

[Gatsby]

[QUOTE=xtreem5150ahm;3242697]

Xtreem, what point are you making here? I said 'we all know Jesus' well what is wrong with that.

No, you said, "we all know THAT Jesus..."

My point is that we don't all know THAT Jesus would not approve of a "new" religion that followed Him... if you and i disagree, then it is not something that we both know.

I thought i explained my point in the post you quoted.

Sorry Extreem, your right, I went back and re-read my post and I did say 'we all know that Jesus did not come to start a new religion.

I thought that in the Bible Jesus said that very thing, that He hadn't come to start a new religion. If that is not in the Bible then apologies because I must have come across that somewhere else.

I know he said that He hadn't come to change the Law or something like that. I'll leave you to correct me on that because I think Iam getting a tad confused here.

I really dont think Jesus did come to start a new religion though but of course if that isn't written anywhere then it has to be speculation on my part. Messengers of God usually come to the Earth to show mankind a way to God but this is not starting a new religion if you follow what Iam meaning here.

I did have a nice day btw, thanks for that.

Regards
Gatsby

[Sparko]

Burnt Offering, I haven't a clue what your saying. I dont know what point you are trying to make as your post is really one of rambling on. ... But for the rest of your post, well it doesn't make sense to me.

Regards
Gatsby

tmp.jpg

[Gatsby]

tmp.jpg

Sparko, you couldn't understand what I said before, so you said,so if you dont mind we are having a serious discussion here. Thought you didn't want to write to me as per your own words..

Regards
Gatsby

[xtreem5150ahm]

I thought that in the Bible Jesus said that very thing, that He hadn't come to start a new religion. If that is not in the Bible then apologies because I must have come across that somewhere else.

I know he said that He hadn't come to change the Law or something like that..

i think what you're recalling is is from the Sermon on the Mount:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

In a nutshell, the Law and the Prophets are what Christianians call the Old Testament. The Jews call it the Tanach (sp?).
Now consider what Jesus said after the resurrection:

Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Two things to consider...
first. this was after His resurrection.
If He was truly resurrected, it lays credibility to the claim that He is God or at the very least, from God. This means that, if one of His sayings/teachings/claims is valid, all of His sayings/teachings/claims are valid. He could not have been an atonement for my sins and yours if He had sin of His own.

Second, IF the Law, Prophets, Writings were written about Him AND He fulfilled those prophecies, then anything written about Him while on earth is not a new religion, but a further "chapter" in the history of an old religion. This is how the New Testament can be understood. In this sense, Christianity is not a new religion. Christianity is following the same God and understanding the Jewish "bible" in light of Jesus being the Messiah.

I really dont think Jesus did come to start a new religion though but of course if that isn't written anywhere then it has to be speculation on my part. Messengers of God usually come to the Earth to show mankind a way to God but this is not starting a new religion if you follow what Iam meaning here.

I think you and i are kinda saying the same thing here regarding Jesus "starting a new religion". However, Christianity is not a "new" religion per se, but an understanding of how the old religion is fulfilled.
Christianity is following Jesus as the Christ (Messiah).

I did have a nice day btw, thanks for that.

Regards
Gatsby

thank you! You too! :-)