What sort of Demon am I dealing with?

[John Goddard]

Good luck to you John and God bless you. You will be in my prayers.

See you back here soon hopefully.

Regards
Gatsby

Thanks, Day 5 again, I had 5 months sober until a couple weeks ago. My big problem is getting angry at my ex-wife over finances and raising our daughter and not praying to forgive, then eventually I drink to soothe festering resentments which eventually spill over into everything including my posting here.

So I have to be careful to be forgiving and loving, even if I disagree with people. Alcoholism is like my "thorn in the flesh" to keep me humble, I guess.

[Vivian]

He's referring to the addendum in Matthew 17 when the disciples could not cast out a certain demon:

19Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, "Why could we not drive it out?"

20And He said to them, "Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.

21["But this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting."]

Verse 21 is not found in the earliest manuscripts and so some think that a later scribe added it. I've heard others preach that it wasn't the demon that goes out with much prayer and fasting, but the little faith, but that doesn't sound very accurate because the parallel of this verse in Mark reads: When He came into the house, His disciples began questioning Him privately, "Why could we not drive it out?" And He said to them, "This kind cannot come out by anything but prayer."

Hi everyone! And it is good to have you back John.

I thought I would share my personal experience with what we could call a demon just yesterday.

I find that most people do not understand or know or see spiritual beings - or beings without physical bodies - which influence and 'exist' in this world. I can - why I am not completely sure! But I can and so will offer to anyone interested my personal experience.

I do agree with the comment made by Gatsby that demons are 'of the mind' - but that does not mean they are not real!

Existing with us in our space is a multiplicity of other beings varying in light and darkness, just as we vary in light and darkness.

Now there are a few things regarding spirituality that are theoretically true - but just accepting the intellectual idea is not enough. The idea has to be integrated, making its home in us down to our subconscious layers before it becomes 'real', in other words we have to live the idea for it to become our reality.

(I hope that makes sense!)

For example, simply saying that demons are of the mind, simply believing that demons are of the mind, is not enough to free us from their influence. As long as we 'believe' in separation, as long as we hold the belief - in any part of us - that there is something separate from us that can harm us or hurt us or requires self-protection from, we are susceptible to demonic influence and attack.

Just accepting the theoretical or intellectual idea that demons are of the mind is not sufficient. Unless we live unity, with every heart beat and thought, we are vulnerable to harm by demons, and or by anything!

And who among us functions fully as a unity, believing themselves to be a unity of all that is - fully functioning as a unity in all thought, word and deed?

I would say that often I do function as a unity, but I still have my weaknesses, areas of damage, where I fall out of such functioning and then become vulnerable to ideas of separation - ideas that there is something that is other than me, and that something can harm me. And it happened yesterday, as a volunteer for an effort at a girl scout camp where I worked myself to exhaustion. In this state no doubt I had very subtle feelings of separation.

I came home and began to develop a horrendous headache - at first thinking I needed water, or maybe was in the sun too long. And I could not get rid of the headache, not even with taking large quantities of pain killer. Such a headache is not common for me, except - and I had forgotten this - with demonic attack. I had forgotten - until things became quiet in my house, and I sat alone and could 'see' the demon causing the headache.

I am able to detect a change in vibration - where one (mine or another) ends and another being's begins, and hence am able to detect demons and angels, when they are near.

I saw this demon 'on me' I felt its sickly vibration, and suddenly realized what had happened.

And so I sat in the living room and prayed, and chanted Holy Names. But this thing did not budge. So I had to go into fully 'prayer and fasting' mode (fasting biblically means separating oneself from this world - 'fasting from the world' - not engaging in world action or thought, and instead taking on a higher consciousness and perception. And it took some effort, focus and determination, to move beyond the separation that had ushered in the demon coming into a place of unity, a meditative state of Light and Love. And in doing this, I invited the demon to join with me, to be one with me (resist not evil) in worship of Yeshua Messiah. Typically demons will exit when Christ's Light and Love enter in, for they are not able to exist with these in harmony, and this one did.

Often, when we experience a physical malady it is actually being caused by the presence of a demon - a demon invited in by our strong separative feelings (eg when we feel sorry for ourself or angry, feeling separate and harmed by other beings.) This is not to say that our bodies on their own are never sick, just that often demons are the actual cause of a simple sudden malady, or they join us in our already existing suffering, creating side maladies.

If any of you reading this are able to remain always in a state of perfection or wholeness, never having a separative thought or feeling, then perhaps you are truly never bothered by demons! And I for one would be most grateful for your righteous prayer.


Shalom.

Viv

[FredFlanders]

Actually, it reads more like this: Whoever denies that Christ has come in the flesh is antichrist.
No he does not. The incarnation is not repeated today. When John spoke about Christ coming in the flesh, he was not talking about Christ entering other people's flesh. He was talking about Christ becoming physical.
By twisting what Scripture says about the incarnation, you have fashioned a self styled way of calling Christians antichrist.

See, this is how it often works. False exegesis leads to sectarian divisiveness.

Dr, go onto verse 4-6 of 1 John 4 and you will see it is talking about Christ in our flesh and they that are in the world speak of the world and is not of God and hears us not.

4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

[FredFlanders]

How do you know it is not the Holy Spirit speaking?
In what other ways is the "demon" manifesting?

Moksha

Moksha,
I do not like referring to the Movies but if you have ever seen the film Exorcist then you will get some idea of what I mean. Some spirits are not easy to decern but their is no problem discerning this type.

[FredFlanders]

I am so sorry, but I feel compelled to express my laughter at this point.

Of all sections of Christianity, the one that has what is undoubtedly the poorest, most uninformed and downright false view of the gift of tongues is without a doubt the Pentecostal movement.

Take this advice: What this person is doing when they make these noises, while the intention might be different, is exactly the same thing that you and your pentecostal brethren are doing every time you think you're speaking in tongues.

Dr,
Your view on tongues is the same as the Antichrist teaching. I subject you look at the thread on Christianity 2001 and discuss the subject there.

[FredFlanders]

Wow, you are really loving on yourself right now aren't you. But let me assure you, I have experienced God's love in abundance. It seems to me you're getting caught up in what scripture describes as "clanging gongs" and what not. Faith hope and love but the greatest of these is love right? All the other stuff is just a shallow faith looking for reassurance. As Jesus told the gathered "You faithless generation, the only sign you'll get is the sign of Jonah."

P,
What was the first act of love Jesus told us to do after His resurrection? I will give you a clue in the following scriptures.

If you love me you will keep my commandments.

Acts 1
1The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,

2Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

3To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

4And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

6When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

[FredFlanders]

I fail to see what fasting has to do with anything, how does it equate with getting rid of so called demons? Demons are of the mind and that is where they must be removed.

Regards
Gatsby

We are dealing with spirits and Christ's answer to the taugh one's such as this was prayer and fasting.
Mark 9 v 17And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;

18And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.

19He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.

20And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.

21And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.

22And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.

23Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

24And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

25When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.

26And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.

27But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.

28And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out?

29And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

[Moksha]

Mark 9 v 17"...which hath a dumb spirit;
18And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away:"

Is that what this demon does?
From what you've told us, all it does is speak in a voice which is disturbing to you.

[Sparko]

Dr, go onto verse 4-6 of 1 John 4 and you will see it is talking about Christ in our flesh and they that are in the world speak of the world and is not of God and hears us not.

4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

I am confused. I thought the Holy Spirit indwells us. Sure you could say that the spirit of God or Christ is in us, when thinking of the trinity, but the Holy Spirit is the person of the trinity that indwells us, isn't it?

Doesn't Christ still retain his glorified body in heaven even today? He is still "in the flesh" - the incarnation is forever.

Or don't you believe that?

[Pilgrim]

P,
What was the first act of love Jesus told us to do after His resurrection? I will give you a clue in the following scriptures.

If you love me you will keep my commandments.

Acts 1
1The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,

2Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

3To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

4And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

6When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Looking, looking...Nope, don't see any mention of demons or speaking in tongues in that bit of scripture. Care to try that again?

Jesus command that Jesus was, in context, speaking of, is the command to love God and to love neighbor. It was not about speaking in tongues or casting out demons.

[Gatsby]

Thanks, Day 5 again, I had 5 months sober until a couple weeks ago. My big problem is getting angry at my ex-wife over finances and raising our daughter and not praying to forgive, then eventually I drink to soothe festering resentments which eventually spill over into everything including my posting here.

So I have to be careful to be forgiving and loving, even if I disagree with people. Alcoholism is like my "thorn in the flesh" to keep me humble, I guess.

Fear not John, seems your handling things pretty well to me. Keep up the good work and dont be downcast about anything.

Regards
Gatsby

[Gatsby]

We are dealing with spirits and Christ's answer to the taugh one's such as this was prayer and fasting.
Mark 9 v 17And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;

18And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.

19He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.

20And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.

21And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.

22And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.

23Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

24And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

25When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.

26And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.

27But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.

28And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out?

29And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

Thanks for your reply. It is obvious that this 'demon' represents a physical condition and again this condition or any condition for that matter comes from the mind.
I refer you to Viv's answer to me previously. The deaf and dumb spirit is a malady which causes lack of harmony between spirit mind and body. Some people incarnate with such maladies which they use as learning tools for themselves and other's. For Spirit is perfect and has no inperfection anywhere.

This also of course comes into a different topic which is one of reincarnation. The teachings of Jesus did include reincarnation but was removed from the Bible way back in time. Again, being born blind, deaf or dumb just as a example most likely would indicate reincarnation at work. Reincarnation is not a punishment of any kind I hasten to add as some parts of the world treat it as it is a punishment, it is not.

Thanks again for your helpfull reply

Regards
Gatsby

[Gatsby]

Hi everyone! And it is good to have you back John.

I thought I would share my personal experience with what we could call a demon just yesterday.

I find that most people do not understand or know or see spiritual beings - or beings without physical bodies - which influence and 'exist' in this world. I can - why I am not completely sure! But I can and so will offer to anyone interested my personal experience.

I do agree with the comment made by Gatsby that demons are 'of the mind' - but that does not mean they are not real!

Existing with us in our space is a multiplicity of other beings varying in light and darkness, just as we vary in light and darkness.

Now there are a few things regarding spirituality that are theoretically true - but just accepting the intellectual idea is not enough. The idea has to be integrated, making its home in us down to our subconscious layers before it becomes 'real', in other words we have to live the idea for it to become our reality.

(I hope that makes sense!)

For example, simply saying that demons are of the mind, simply believing that demons are of the mind, is not enough to free us from their influence. As long as we 'believe' in separation, as long as we hold the belief - in any part of us - that there is something separate from us that can harm us or hurt us or requires self-protection from, we are susceptible to demonic influence and attack.

Just accepting the theoretical or intellectual idea that demons are of the mind is not sufficient. Unless we live unity, with every heart beat and thought, we are vulnerable to harm by demons, and or by anything!

And who among us functions fully as a unity, believing themselves to be a unity of all that is - fully functioning as a unity in all thought, word and deed?

I would say that often I do function as a unity, but I still have my weaknesses, areas of damage, where I fall out of such functioning and then become vulnerable to ideas of separation - ideas that there is something that is other than me, and that something can harm me. And it happened yesterday, as a volunteer for an effort at a girl scout camp where I worked myself to exhaustion. In this state no doubt I had very subtle feelings of separation.

I came home and began to develop a horrendous headache - at first thinking I needed water, or maybe was in the sun too long. And I could not get rid of the headache, not even with taking large quantities of pain killer. Such a headache is not common for me, except - and I had forgotten this - with demonic attack. I had forgotten - until things became quiet in my house, and I sat alone and could 'see' the demon causing the headache.

I am able to detect a change in vibration - where one (mine or another) ends and another being's begins, and hence am able to detect demons and angels, when they are near.

I saw this demon 'on me' I felt its sickly vibration, and suddenly realized what had happened.

And so I sat in the living room and prayed, and chanted Holy Names. But this thing did not budge. So I had to go into fully 'prayer and fasting' mode (fasting biblically means separating oneself from this world - 'fasting from the world' - not engaging in world action or thought, and instead taking on a higher consciousness and perception. And it took some effort, focus and determination, to move beyond the separation that had ushered in the demon coming into a place of unity, a meditative state of Light and Love. And in doing this, I invited the demon to join with me, to be one with me (resist not evil) in worship of Yeshua Messiah. Typically demons will exit when Christ's Light and Love enter in, for they are not able to exist with these in harmony, and this one did.

Often, when we experience a physical malady it is actually being caused by the presence of a demon - a demon invited in by our strong separative feelings (eg when we feel sorry for ourself or angry, feeling separate and harmed by other beings.) This is not to say that our bodies on their own are never sick, just that often demons are the actual cause of a simple sudden malady, or they join us in our already existing suffering, creating side maladies.

If any of you reading this are able to remain always in a state of perfection or wholeness, never having a separative thought or feeling, then perhaps you are truly never bothered by demons! And I for one would be most grateful for your righteous prayer.


Shalom.

Viv

Thanks Viv, of course your right, all is in the mind but it is quite real also. I wasn't meaning to say it wasn't because the experience is itself, quite real. And it is difficult, even knowing as we do that we are whole in ourselves and not seperate from God yet how easily we forget this and of course we suffer as a result.

Interesting though painfull experience you had. Thanks for sharing it and sharing how you managed to expel the 'demon' within. Very informative.

Regards
Gatsby

[John Goddard]

Fear not John, seems your handling things pretty well to me. Keep up the good work and dont be downcast about anything.

Regards
Gatsby

Thanks, I feel good, I have my son 2 weeks visiting and we're vacationing on the beach.

-----------

Around 1984 my dad was getting ready for work and he hear my mom talking in her sleep for a while, he thought it was Latin but when she woke up she remembered four of the words and they were in Hebrew and translated into a specific message from the Bible.

About the same time I dreamed I was walking down a long highway with events of my life going on like a movie on either side, and then an angel threw me into a prison with a lot of strangers. I tried to escape and found my way out, the prison turned out to be a cave on the side of a high mountain, too high to climb down with more angels guarding the top. All around below was a dry desert. So I was stuck on this ledge outside of the cave and realized I was in a Hell of some kind, all alone. I sat down on a rock and cried over my sinful life and tears washed away dust at my feet to reveal a flat stone with many words engraved in it. As soon as I finished reading I woke up and only remembered four of the words. They weren't in Hebrew, but in some other languages they translated into a message about where I was and what happened. Basically it was like Jonah's experience, relating to Purgatory and the Days of Awe before Yom Kippur when names are written in the Book of Life, and blotted from it.

I understand why a lot of Christians think it is a joke, in the '70s when my mom was baptized in a megachurch, the preacher whispered for her to babble something, I guess so it would look like he had special "anointing" or something, and she never went to church again.

But those two things let me know communicating in tongues is real apart from the fakes and gave me a lot of faith over the years.

[FredFlanders]

I am confused. I thought the Holy Spirit indwells us. Sure you could say that the spirit of God or Christ is in us, when thinking of the trinity, but the Holy Spirit is the person of the trinity that indwells us, isn't it?

Doesn't Christ still retain his glorified body in heaven even today? He is still "in the flesh" - the incarnation is forever.

Or don't you believe that?

S, the Holy Spirit has the same characteristics and power as Christ.

John 17 v 20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.