First Gentile converts

[penguinfan]

The New Testament says that Peter converted Cornelius and that Gentiles were converted in Acts 11. Ignoring Cornelius' conversion as an exception rather than the norm and the conversion of Gentiles in Antioch (where it does not say whether they fully adhered to Jewish law - became Jewish first then accepted Jesus' message), can it be safe to conclude that Paul was the first to convert Gentiles?

I mean, the early Christians wanted Gentiles to convert to Judaism before they accepted Jesus as the Messiah. Wouldn't Paul, therefore, be the one to change course and widen the mission to Gentiles?

Thanks.

[John Goddard]

The New Testament says that Peter converted Cornelius and that Gentiles were converted in Acts 11. Ignoring Cornelius' conversion as an exception rather than the norm and the conversion of Gentiles in Antioch (where it does not say whether they fully adhered to Jewish law - became Jewish first then accepted Jesus' message), can it be safe to conclude that Paul was the first to convert Gentiles?

I mean, the early Christians wanted Gentiles to convert to Judaism before they accepted Jesus as the Messiah. Wouldn't Paul, therefore, be the one to change course and widen the mission to Gentiles?

Thanks.

Jesus didn't tell the centurion to convert to a Jew in Matthew 8.

Matthew 8:13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.

But Paul was the one chosen to preach it to a wider Gentile audience.

Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

[barnasha]

one could argue that "converting" from one "religion" to another "religion" is an anachronism if applied to the culture of the time of Jesus and Paul

[Anon]

I read this title and thought "man, that took a long time!"

... seriously though, why is it that conversion would be an anachronistic term in that era? That's interesting to me. Are you referring to the general consensus that they just didn't do it often at all?

[Obsidian]

Jesus didn't Judaize the Samaritans in John 4 either.

[John Goddard]

Jesus didn't Judaize the Samaritans in John 4 either.

Judaism doesn't Judaize today, rabbis tell them to observe Noahide first.

This is the kind of ignorance and confusion in Christianity that countermissionaries use to make Jews think they should drop Torah if they become Christian, when it was all about Gentiles not having to convert entirely. Jews were left as they were.

[penguinfan]

Jesus didn't tell the centurion to convert to a Jew in Matthew 8.

Matthew 8:13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.

But Paul was the one chosen to preach it to a wider Gentile audience.

Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Jesus also did not require the presumably Gentile man he exercised demons from to convert to Judaism either - though he did not allow him to follow him as an apostle and instead told the man to tell of Jesus to his community.

In both events, I would consider that the exception rather than th norm - Jesus' message seems to be clear that Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.

[penguinfan]

Jesus didn't Judaize the Samaritans in John 4 either.

Jesus would not need to since Samaritans already follow the Torah.

[One Bad Pig]

The New Testament says that Peter converted Cornelius and that Gentiles were converted in Acts 11. Ignoring Cornelius' conversion as an exception rather than the norm and the conversion of Gentiles in Antioch (where it does not say whether they fully adhered to Jewish law - became Jewish first then accepted Jesus' message), can it be safe to conclude that Paul was the first to convert Gentiles?

I mean, the early Christians wanted Gentiles to convert to Judaism before they accepted Jesus as the Messiah. Wouldn't Paul, therefore, be the one to change course and widen the mission to Gentiles?

Thanks.

Why do you want to ignore Cornelius as an exception, and where does it say that the early Christians wanted Gentiles to convert to Judaism? Our earliest examples of Gentile converts (which you want to exclude) imply otherwise. I think it can be safe to conclude that Paul was the first to evangelize Gentiles in particular (rather than incidental evangelization of God fearers), but he certainly wasn't the first to convert any Gentiles.

[popaface]

The New Testament says that Peter converted Cornelius and that Gentiles were converted in Acts 11. Ignoring Cornelius' conversion as an exception rather than the norm and the conversion of Gentiles in Antioch (where it does not say whether they fully adhered to Jewish law - became Jewish first then accepted Jesus' message), can it be safe to conclude that Paul was the first to convert Gentiles?

I mean, the early Christians wanted Gentiles to convert to Judaism before they accepted Jesus as the Messiah. Wouldn't Paul, therefore, be the one to change course and widen the mission to Gentiles?

Thanks.

No. Paul constantly battles with the question of his apostleship to various Gentile-Christian communities, so it's safe to say that they were converted by other Christians.

When reading Luke and Paul, it's necessary to note that Luke wants to paint his history very neatly and pleasantly with Paul being the converter of the Gentiles, and Paul discusses the Jerusalem Conference with apostleship in mind.

Further, Paul addresses Gentile-Christians many times saying that they were believers before him. I think that the safest thing to assume is that "by the time of Paul", Christianity included Gentiles and Jews and was forging its identity as a universalist Judaism which maintained the Messiahship of Jesus Christ.

Allan

[John Goddard]

Jesus also did not require the presumably Gentile man he exercised demons from to convert to Judaism either - though he did not allow him to follow him as an apostle and instead told the man to tell of Jesus to his community.

In both events, I would consider that the exception rather than th norm - Jesus' message seems to be clear that Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.

But when Israel rejected him they were broken off and Gentiles graffed in, Romans 11.

Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

[Obsidian]

Jesus would not need to since Samaritans already follow the Torah.

That's not very accurate. There were some significant differences, and as far as the old covenant was concerned, the Samaritans were essentially apostates. If they were true Jews, Jesus would have been sent to them. But he wasn't sent to them; as someone pointed out, his encounter with the woman at the well was the exception, not the rule.

[penguinfan]

popaface:

No. Paul constantly battles with the question of his apostleship to various Gentile-Christian communities, so it's safe to say that they were converted by other Christians.

I agree with you that Gentiles were converted to Judaism and then were introduced to Jesus' message - now being Jews they could receive Jesus' message.

My question / point in this thread, is that it seems Paul was the first to convert Gentiles to Christianity. Previously (with the exception of Cornelius), Gentiles must first become Jews then they could become "Christians".

[barnasha]

Paul didn't "convert" anyone to a religion. Even Paul's "conversion" was not a "worldly religious" one. Paul never preached "Christianity".. what he preached became called as Christianity, later

Back then, people did not think of 'religions' as mutually exclusive worldly theo-political groups, like today.

[One Bad Pig]

popaface:



I agree with you that Gentiles were converted to Judaism and then were introduced to Jesus' message - now being Jews they could receive Jesus' message.

My question / point in this thread, is that it seems Paul was the first to convert Gentiles to Christianity. Previously (with the exception of Cornelius), Gentiles must first become Jews then they could become "Christians".

You seem to have missed my first post.