Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 21

Thread: How did Dominic Crossan become a skeptic about Christianity?

  1. #11
    tWebber robrecht's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    The Kingdom of God
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    6,865
    Amen (Given)
    896
    Amen (Received)
    1562
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrift View Post
    I honestly don't remember those conversations, but it wouldn't surprise me if you had some sort of ridiculous rationalization.
    You really can do better than this.
    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον
    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

  2. #12
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    6,391
    Amen (Given)
    5629
    Amen (Received)
    5178
    Quote Originally Posted by robrecht View Post
    You really can do better than this.
    The feeling is mutual.

  3. Amen Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  4. #13
    tWebber robrecht's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    The Kingdom of God
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    6,865
    Amen (Given)
    896
    Amen (Received)
    1562
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrift View Post
    The feeling is mutual.
    Can you be more specific?
    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον
    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

  5. #14
    tWebber rakovsky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Faith
    East Orthodox w/HolyDoubt
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    79
    Amen (Given)
    2
    Amen (Received)
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by psstein View Post
    Yes, he did. It's in his memoir A Long Way From Tipperary, which he wrote in the early 2000s. I read it about this time last year; it's pretty interesting.
    Thanks, P.S.

    May I ask if you remember what he said on how he arrived at his skepticism on the main supernatural claims initially?

    Unfortunately, only a bit of the book's beginning is online, and it's quite a long book.

  6. #15
    tWebber rakovsky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Faith
    East Orthodox w/HolyDoubt
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    79
    Amen (Given)
    2
    Amen (Received)
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrift View Post
    I take it you don't really put much stock in 1 Corinthians 15:14.
    That verse says:
    " 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. "

    One of the main teachings is that Jesus bodily revived after death. Without Christ's physical revival, a main part of Paul's preaching would be fictional and misleading. But the preaching would still have some value, as in teaching ethics.

  7. #16
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Faith
    Roman Catholic
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,427
    Amen (Given)
    193
    Amen (Received)
    568
    Quote Originally Posted by robrecht View Post
    I was going to suggest his memoir too, but have not personally read it.

    Crossan does not believe in a physical resurrection, but if I recall correctly, he does believe in the resurrection, that the disciples had true visions of Jesus exalted after his death, the first fruits of the general resurrection, or something like that. He very much considers himself a Christian. I do too. I had a nice conversation with him once on a post-breakfast stroll at an SNTS meeting. He's a delightful man, by the way.
    Yeah, Crossan's view is that the disciples had some sort of visionary experience that convinced them that Jesus had been raised into God. His view isn't impossible and goes in the theme of liberal Protestant scholarship. I tend to see Crossan as a continuation of the liberal quest, not as a member of the poorly named Third Quest.


    I don't know how he personally came to his view of the resurrection, but it is not an uncommon position among professional theologians and academics
    Agreed. I think it's the most likely option that doesn't involve a physical resurrection.

  8. #17
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Faith
    Roman Catholic
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,427
    Amen (Given)
    193
    Amen (Received)
    568
    Quote Originally Posted by rakovsky View Post
    That verse says:
    " 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. "

    One of the main teachings is that Jesus bodily revived after death. Without Christ's physical revival, a main part of Paul's preaching would be fictional and misleading. But the preaching would still have some value, as in teaching ethics.
    I wouldn't say it was a bodily revival. I'd say that Jesus had the resurrection body, a body that is beyond physical and can do things that a normal body can't.

  9. #18
    tWebber rakovsky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Faith
    East Orthodox w/HolyDoubt
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    79
    Amen (Given)
    2
    Amen (Received)
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by psstein View Post
    I wouldn't say it was a bodily revival. I'd say that Jesus had the resurrection body, a body that is beyond physical and can do things that a normal body can't.
    I think one must say that it could take physical forms. For example, Jesus wanted to prove that he had flesh and blood after his resurrection and was not just a nonphysical spirit in form, so he had the disciples physically touch his physical body to physically prove it to them.

  10. #19
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Next to you
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    7,568
    Amen (Given)
    1275
    Amen (Received)
    3284
    The only thing I've read by Crossan was his book on the Lord's Prayer, The Greatest Prayer. (It was assigned to me in seminary.) Since I don't remember a whole lot about it, I'm looking back at the paper I submitted for it. It was pretty critical of the book (and I didn't know how that would fly with the professor) but I did get an A on the paper. (It was a liberal seminary and I felt like the token non-hostile conservative in there.)

    I agreed with Crossan on what he called "Enoughism" being a biblical theme, that is, every person having enough. I was convinced that the Lord's Prayer spoke more to the economic realities of Jesus's world than modern people realize (and that "debts" is a better translation than "trespasses"). I was completely unconvinced by his claim that the Lord's Supper was really just about making sure everybody had enough to eat. I was also unconvinced by his rejection of the book of Revelation (he went on this tangent to justify complete non-violence, and because Jesus is involved in violence within Revelation's visions, his solution was simply to dismiss the book).

    I accused Crossan of turning Christianity into little more than a social justice movement. My professor responded in his comments that Crossan was simply focusing on that one aspect of Christianity. Perhaps, but I want to know what else he believes.

    It was a good lesson to me that an author I fundamentally disagree with can make many good points while still missing the forest for the trees.
    Something is always happening, but when it happens, people don't always see it, or understand it... or accept it.

  11. #20
    tWebber rakovsky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Faith
    East Orthodox w/HolyDoubt
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    79
    Amen (Given)
    2
    Amen (Received)
    8
    My impression from what you are telling me is that Crossan could just have chosen to focus on the justice aspect, but one of the reasons that he did not could be possible disillusionmentioned at that time with the most supernatural claims wrt Jesus, eg the Virgin birth.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •