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Thread: Mawlid

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    tWebber JB DoulosChristou's Avatar
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    Mawlid

    Tonight begins the Muslim observance of Mawlid, Muhammad's birthday. Just wanted to wish TWeb's resident Muslims (er, Muslim... hi, siam) a happy Mawlid.

    (If he/they celebrate it - there are some strains of Islamic tradition that prohibit its celebration, because of course there are.)

    I got back a couple hours ago from attending a lecture by an Islamic scholar at a local mosque, on the topic of Muhammad's spiritual life (though the lecture ranged over a variety of topics, really), followed by dinner there. (Ate across the table from a Mennonite, with a Unitarian Universalist on my left and a Filipino Christian immigrant on my right, and three Muslims, including the lecturer, rounding out the group.) Had a rather fine time.
    "The Jesus Christ who saves sinners is the same Christ who beckons his followers to serious use of their minds for serious explorations of the world." - Mark Noll

    "It cannot be that the people should grow in grace unless they give themselves to reading." - John Wesley

    "Wherever men are still theological, there is still some chance of their being logical." - G. K. Chesterton

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    tWebber
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    Salamalaikum JB,

    Thankyou for your greetings, allow me to also wish you an early happy Christmas for the birthday of Jesus Christ (pbuh).

    Islam may appear a monolith, but within it there are a range of opinions on a variety of issues. Unfortunately, since I seem to be the only Muslim here---the range of opinion is not represented....
    I appreciate that you took time and effort to gain knowledge of Islam and know Muslims.

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    tWebber
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    https://muslimvillage.com/2016/12/12...muslims-today/

    some opinions and info about Mawlid

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    tWebber JB DoulosChristou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    Salamalaikum JB,

    Thankyou for your greetings, allow me to also wish you an early happy Christmas for the birthday of Jesus Christ (pbuh).

    Islam may appear a monolith, but within it there are a range of opinions on a variety of issues. Unfortunately, since I seem to be the only Muslim here---the range of opinion is not represented....
    I appreciate that you took time and effort to gain knowledge of Islam and know Muslims.
    Wa 'alaikum as-salam, siam, and thank you, too.

    TWeb would be a lot more fun with more Muslims - invite some friends!

    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    https://muslimvillage.com/2016/12/12...muslims-today/

    some opinions and info about Mawlid
    An interesting article - good description of the diversity within both Sufism and Salafism.
    "The Jesus Christ who saves sinners is the same Christ who beckons his followers to serious use of their minds for serious explorations of the world." - Mark Noll

    "It cannot be that the people should grow in grace unless they give themselves to reading." - John Wesley

    "Wherever men are still theological, there is still some chance of their being logical." - G. K. Chesterton

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    tWebber
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    I did try to invite a few but they have not expressed their views. From my own personal experience of having conversations in open non-Muslim spaces---it is difficult to present diversity when the majority of the non-Muslim readership has a minimum understanding of Islam---and even then, some of it is misinformation! ---We mostly have our hands full correcting misconceptions....and "humanizing" Muslims...

    I can understand why those not familiar with Islam would be slow to find knowledge of it---Islam is not an "organized" religion with a structure/institute that disseminates information about itself. The 2 best ways to "know" Islam is either by reading the Quran or befriending a Muslim...the 2nd being the easier route....

    As for those of us within Islam---we navigate this diversity by a) following the traditions of our parents/community b) finding scholars whose world-views and opinions align with our lived realities and predispositions.
    Some Muslim scholars such as Tariq Ramadan have criticized this tendency--calling it "thinking-by-proxy".

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    tWebber JB DoulosChristou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    https://muslimvillage.com/2016/12/12...muslims-today/

    some opinions and info about Mawlid
    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    I did try to invite a few but they have not expressed their views. From my own personal experience of having conversations in open non-Muslim spaces---it is difficult to present diversity when the majority of the non-Muslim readership has a minimum understanding of Islam---and even then, some of it is misinformation! ---We mostly have our hands full correcting misconceptions....and "humanizing" Muslims...

    I can understand why those not familiar with Islam would be slow to find knowledge of it---Islam is not an "organized" religion with a structure/institute that disseminates information about itself. The 2 best ways to "know" Islam is either by reading the Quran or befriending a Muslim...the 2nd being the easier route....

    As for those of us within Islam---we navigate this diversity by a) following the traditions of our parents/community b) finding scholars whose world-views and opinions align with our lived realities and predispositions.
    Some Muslim scholars such as Tariq Ramadan have criticized this tendency--calling it "thinking-by-proxy".
    "Thinking-by-proxy" - that's a good way to put it! (I've often found Ramadan one of the less pleasant Muslim scholars to read, but he does have some good points here and there, that's for sure.)
    "The Jesus Christ who saves sinners is the same Christ who beckons his followers to serious use of their minds for serious explorations of the world." - Mark Noll

    "It cannot be that the people should grow in grace unless they give themselves to reading." - John Wesley

    "Wherever men are still theological, there is still some chance of their being logical." - G. K. Chesterton

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    tWebber
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    I find Ramadan interesting. His criticism of Islam/Muslims is valid and thought provoking. His solutions are general enough that the various communities can reconstruct them to fit their own unique culture, heritage and environments....
    He is able to resonate with both the Western and Eastern Muslims.

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    tWebber JB DoulosChristou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    I find Ramadan interesting. His criticism of Islam/Muslims is valid and thought provoking. His solutions are general enough that the various communities can reconstruct them to fit their own unique culture, heritage and environments....
    He is able to resonate with both the Western and Eastern Muslims.
    That seems quite true to me. I read his Western Muslims and the Future of Islam the other year, and from what I can recall, his style can get rather abstruse at times (but then again, he is European, after all), but in between that, his vision for Muslim life in the Western world looks to be a fairly healthy and positive one, without being disconnected from classical Islamic jurisprudence.
    "The Jesus Christ who saves sinners is the same Christ who beckons his followers to serious use of their minds for serious explorations of the world." - Mark Noll

    "It cannot be that the people should grow in grace unless they give themselves to reading." - John Wesley

    "Wherever men are still theological, there is still some chance of their being logical." - G. K. Chesterton

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB DoulosChristou View Post
    That seems quite true to me. I read his Western Muslims and the Future of Islam the other year, and from what I can recall, his style can get rather abstruse at times (but then again, he is European, after all), but in between that, his vision for Muslim life in the Western world looks to be a fairly healthy and positive one, without being disconnected from classical Islamic jurisprudence.
    Yes---you bring up an important point---Sharia may be a "scary" word in the Non-Muslim West, but if Muslim societies are going to work out healthy and wholistic ethical principles upon which to organize their lives and communities---Sharia (the schools of law and the various opinions within) has to be brought up and discussed. One of the problems of the Purists ideologies is that they have ditched the classical "tradition"...and instead made one up....one that is supposedly "Pure".

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    tWebber JB DoulosChristou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    Yes---you bring up an important point---Sharia may be a "scary" word in the Non-Muslim West, but if Muslim societies are going to work out healthy and wholistic ethical principles upon which to organize their lives and communities---Sharia (the schools of law and the various opinions within) has to be brought up and discussed. One of the problems of the Purists ideologies is that they have ditched the classical "tradition"...and instead made one up....one that is supposedly "Pure".
    Shari'a is such a tough issue to tackle here in the West, principally because the examples of supposedly Shari'a-oriented societies we observe from afar are so problematic, to say the least. (Hence the (rather silly) attempts to pass laws forbidding American courts from taking shari'a into consideration.) Admittedly, it doesn't help that even in classical expressions of shari'a (as in, e.g., Reliance of the Traveler), there's a lot there that Westerners (I think rightly) find highly objectionable.

    But there's always more to be said as to how else shari'a might be expressed and understood in the present day. It all comes down to, what does the real shari'a actually say?

    Are you familiar with Cherif Bassiouni's book The Shari'a and Islamic Criminal Justice in Time of War and Peace?
    "The Jesus Christ who saves sinners is the same Christ who beckons his followers to serious use of their minds for serious explorations of the world." - Mark Noll

    "It cannot be that the people should grow in grace unless they give themselves to reading." - John Wesley

    "Wherever men are still theological, there is still some chance of their being logical." - G. K. Chesterton

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