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Thread: Mawlid

  1. #11
    High Priestess of the Pot Stirrers ke7ejx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    Salamalaikum JB,

    Thankyou for your greetings, allow me to also wish you an early happy Christmas for the birthday of Jesus Christ (pbuh).

    Islam may appear a monolith, but within it there are a range of opinions on a variety of issues. Unfortunately, since I seem to be the only Muslim here---the range of opinion is not represented....
    I appreciate that you took time and effort to gain knowledge of Islam and know Muslims.
    Hello, Siam. I didn't know we had a Muslim Twebber. I'm very happy to meet you!
    I am Punkinhead.

    "I have missed you, Oh Grand High Priestess of the Order of the Stirring Pot"

    ~ Cow Poke aka CP aka Creacher aka ke7ejx's apprentice....

  2. #12
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB DoulosChristou View Post
    Shari'a is such a tough issue to tackle here in the West, principally because the examples of supposedly Shari'a-oriented societies we observe from afar are so problematic, to say the least. (Hence the (rather silly) attempts to pass laws forbidding American courts from taking shari'a into consideration.) Admittedly, it doesn't help that even in classical expressions of shari'a (as in, e.g., Reliance of the Traveler), there's a lot there that Westerners (I think rightly) find highly objectionable.

    But there's always more to be said as to how else shari'a might be expressed and understood in the present day. It all comes down to, what does the real shari'a actually say?

    Are you familiar with Cherif Bassiouni's book The Shari'a and Islamic Criminal Justice in Time of War and Peace?
    All human endeavors are flawed and so whatever the label of the law--even Western Laws --- have problems. But Islamic law has a very long history as well as much diversity. There is no such thing as real/false Sharia. (but, I suppose one might label good/bad law/fiqh ?)
    There are universal ethico-moral principles and a generally agreed upon "purpose" of law (maqasid al Sharia)---there is also a methodology of arriving at law (Usul al-fiqh). Apart from all this, there is the history of the implementations and practices of Sharia/Fiqh...(these days there is some research on the Ottoman system....) ...so there is much to know of this complex subject.

    I have not read the book "The Shari'a and Islamic Criminal Justice in Time of War and Peace"...what are your thoughts on it? what did you find interesting in it?

  3. #13
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by ke7ejx View Post
    Hello, Siam. I didn't know we had a Muslim Twebber. I'm very happy to meet you!
    Hello ke7ejx,
    Nice to meet you too. Are you making any preparations for Christmas or is it too early yet?

  4. #14
    High Priestess of the Pot Stirrers ke7ejx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    Hello ke7ejx,
    Nice to meet you too. Are you making any preparations for Christmas or is it too early yet?
    Just wrapping up a near finished semester. I'll pull out decorations tomorrow. How are you enjoying your December?
    I am Punkinhead.

    "I have missed you, Oh Grand High Priestess of the Order of the Stirring Pot"

    ~ Cow Poke aka CP aka Creacher aka ke7ejx's apprentice....

  5. #15
    tWebber JB DoulosChristou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    All human endeavors are flawed and so whatever the label of the law--even Western Laws --- have problems. But Islamic law has a very long history as well as much diversity. There is no such thing as real/false Sharia. (but, I suppose one might label good/bad law/fiqh ?)
    There are universal ethico-moral principles and a generally agreed upon "purpose" of law (maqasid al Sharia)---there is also a methodology of arriving at law (Usul al-fiqh). Apart from all this, there is the history of the implementations and practices of Sharia/Fiqh...(these days there is some research on the Ottoman system....) ...so there is much to know of this complex subject.

    I have not read the book "The Shari'a and Islamic Criminal Justice in Time of War and Peace"...what are your thoughts on it? what did you find interesting in it?

    Most of the references to Christianity are somewhat botched, but on the whole, Bassiouni presents an account of shari'a that seems pretty constructive. He rejects the usefulness of the historical dar al-islam/dar al-harb division (which is good), emphasizes that all existing Muslim-majority nations are signatories to numerous treaties and are bound by Islamic law to conduct themselves accordingly, puts great stress on the Islamic limits of just practice in war, stresses the strict evidentiary requirements for all hudud crimes, argues that ridda was never meant to be a hadd crime in and of itself, and suggests that stoning was never meant to be an Islamic punishment at all (but rather, historically, was Muhammad's use of Jewish law for cases involving the Jewish tribes in Medina). He also stresses that "freedom of religion is a basic human right that is universally recognized" and laments that "countries which profess to be Islamic are the ones which most restrict freedom of religion."

    On the downside, however, Bassiouni attempts to carve out too much space for reprisals and ends up defending the Taliban, so that's a pretty steep downside (along with some of the usual anti-Western remarks). In the end, he stretches the "category of legitimate targets" far more broadly than international humanitarian law rightly limits it.

    But I will say that Bassiouni's discussion of justified rebellion in Islamic law is exceptionally cogent, which was very helpful.
    "The Jesus Christ who saves sinners is the same Christ who beckons his followers to serious use of their minds for serious explorations of the world." - Mark Noll

    "It cannot be that the people should grow in grace unless they give themselves to reading." - John Wesley

    "Wherever men are still theological, there is still some chance of their being logical." - G. K. Chesterton

  6. #16
    tWebber
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    Us vs them division---So what is your opinion on "American exceptionalism"? an ideology on which most U.S. presidential campaigns run and on which much of U.S. foreign policy is based?

    American exceptionalism is one of three related ideas. The first is that the history of the United States is inherently different from other nations. In this view, American exceptionalism stems from its emergence from the American Revolution, thereby becoming what political scientist Seymour Martin Lipset called "the first new nation" and developing a uniquely American ideology, "Americanism", based on liberty, egalitarianism, individualism, republicanism, democracy and laissez-faire economics. This ideology itself is often referred to as "American exceptionalism." Second is the idea that the US has a unique mission to transform the world. As Abraham Lincoln stated in the Gettysburg address (1863), Americans have a duty to ensure, "government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth." Third is the sense that the United States' history and mission give it a superiority over other nations.---https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism

    Freedom of religion---how would you define the term "religion"?
    The Quranic word "Deen" often translated as religion---also has wider connotations as "way of life", and "freedom of conscience".
    To what degree is there a "freedom" in a society/nation if all the citizenry must follow values and laws/rules determined and enforced by State institutions?

    human rights---who/what determines/authorizes "human" rights?---God?, Nature?, Human beings? To discuss rights without the balancing framework of responsibility is to turn "rights" into unmerited privileges/entitlements claimed by one group over others....?....

  7. #17
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by ke7ejx View Post
    Just wrapping up a near finished semester. I'll pull out decorations tomorrow. How are you enjoying your December?
    I will become busy with family functions and travel..but at the moment still have a bit of time on my hands....

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ke7ejx View Post
    I didn't know we had a Muslim Twebber. I'm very happy to meet you!
    We used to have many Muslims here when I was around (8 or so years ago). Some became Christians, while others are perhaps still lurking.

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