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Mawlid

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  • Mawlid

    Tonight begins the Muslim observance of Mawlid, Muhammad's birthday. Just wanted to wish TWeb's resident Muslims (er, Muslim... hi, siam) a happy Mawlid.

    (If he/they celebrate it - there are some strains of Islamic tradition that prohibit its celebration, because of course there are.)

    I got back a couple hours ago from attending a lecture by an Islamic scholar at a local mosque, on the topic of Muhammad's spiritual life (though the lecture ranged over a variety of topics, really), followed by dinner there. (Ate across the table from a Mennonite, with a Unitarian Universalist on my left and a Filipino Christian immigrant on my right, and three Muslims, including the lecturer, rounding out the group.) Had a rather fine time.
    "The Jesus Christ who saves sinners is the same Christ who beckons his followers to serious use of their minds for serious explorations of the world." - Mark Noll

    "It cannot be that the people should grow in grace unless they give themselves to reading." - John Wesley

    "Wherever men are still theological, there is still some chance of their being logical." - G. K. Chesterton

  • #2
    Salamalaikum JB,

    Thankyou for your greetings, allow me to also wish you an early happy Christmas for the birthday of Jesus Christ (pbuh).

    Islam may appear a monolith, but within it there are a range of opinions on a variety of issues. Unfortunately, since I seem to be the only Muslim here---the range of opinion is not represented....
    I appreciate that you took time and effort to gain knowledge of Islam and know Muslims.

    Comment


    • #3
      https://muslimvillage.com/2016/12/12...muslims-today/

      some opinions and info about Mawlid

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by siam View Post
        Salamalaikum JB,

        Thankyou for your greetings, allow me to also wish you an early happy Christmas for the birthday of Jesus Christ (pbuh).

        Islam may appear a monolith, but within it there are a range of opinions on a variety of issues. Unfortunately, since I seem to be the only Muslim here---the range of opinion is not represented....
        I appreciate that you took time and effort to gain knowledge of Islam and know Muslims.
        Wa 'alaikum as-salam, siam, and thank you, too.

        TWeb would be a lot more fun with more Muslims - invite some friends!

        Originally posted by siam View Post
        https://muslimvillage.com/2016/12/12...muslims-today/

        some opinions and info about Mawlid
        An interesting article - good description of the diversity within both Sufism and Salafism.
        "The Jesus Christ who saves sinners is the same Christ who beckons his followers to serious use of their minds for serious explorations of the world." - Mark Noll

        "It cannot be that the people should grow in grace unless they give themselves to reading." - John Wesley

        "Wherever men are still theological, there is still some chance of their being logical." - G. K. Chesterton

        Comment


        • #5
          I did try to invite a few but they have not expressed their views. From my own personal experience of having conversations in open non-Muslim spaces---it is difficult to present diversity when the majority of the non-Muslim readership has a minimum understanding of Islam---and even then, some of it is misinformation! ---We mostly have our hands full correcting misconceptions....and "humanizing" Muslims...

          I can understand why those not familiar with Islam would be slow to find knowledge of it---Islam is not an "organized" religion with a structure/institute that disseminates information about itself. The 2 best ways to "know" Islam is either by reading the Quran or befriending a Muslim...the 2nd being the easier route....

          As for those of us within Islam---we navigate this diversity by a) following the traditions of our parents/community b) finding scholars whose world-views and opinions align with our lived realities and predispositions.
          Some Muslim scholars such as Tariq Ramadan have criticized this tendency--calling it "thinking-by-proxy".

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by siam View Post
            https://muslimvillage.com/2016/12/12...muslims-today/

            some opinions and info about Mawlid
            Originally posted by siam View Post
            I did try to invite a few but they have not expressed their views. From my own personal experience of having conversations in open non-Muslim spaces---it is difficult to present diversity when the majority of the non-Muslim readership has a minimum understanding of Islam---and even then, some of it is misinformation! ---We mostly have our hands full correcting misconceptions....and "humanizing" Muslims...

            I can understand why those not familiar with Islam would be slow to find knowledge of it---Islam is not an "organized" religion with a structure/institute that disseminates information about itself. The 2 best ways to "know" Islam is either by reading the Quran or befriending a Muslim...the 2nd being the easier route....

            As for those of us within Islam---we navigate this diversity by a) following the traditions of our parents/community b) finding scholars whose world-views and opinions align with our lived realities and predispositions.
            Some Muslim scholars such as Tariq Ramadan have criticized this tendency--calling it "thinking-by-proxy".
            "Thinking-by-proxy" - that's a good way to put it! (I've often found Ramadan one of the less pleasant Muslim scholars to read, but he does have some good points here and there, that's for sure.)
            "The Jesus Christ who saves sinners is the same Christ who beckons his followers to serious use of their minds for serious explorations of the world." - Mark Noll

            "It cannot be that the people should grow in grace unless they give themselves to reading." - John Wesley

            "Wherever men are still theological, there is still some chance of their being logical." - G. K. Chesterton

            Comment


            • #7
              I find Ramadan interesting. His criticism of Islam/Muslims is valid and thought provoking. His solutions are general enough that the various communities can reconstruct them to fit their own unique culture, heritage and environments....
              He is able to resonate with both the Western and Eastern Muslims.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by siam View Post
                I find Ramadan interesting. His criticism of Islam/Muslims is valid and thought provoking. His solutions are general enough that the various communities can reconstruct them to fit their own unique culture, heritage and environments....
                He is able to resonate with both the Western and Eastern Muslims.
                That seems quite true to me. I read his Western Muslims and the Future of Islam the other year, and from what I can recall, his style can get rather abstruse at times (but then again, he is European, after all), but in between that, his vision for Muslim life in the Western world looks to be a fairly healthy and positive one, without being disconnected from classical Islamic jurisprudence.
                "The Jesus Christ who saves sinners is the same Christ who beckons his followers to serious use of their minds for serious explorations of the world." - Mark Noll

                "It cannot be that the people should grow in grace unless they give themselves to reading." - John Wesley

                "Wherever men are still theological, there is still some chance of their being logical." - G. K. Chesterton

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by JB DoulosChristou View Post
                  That seems quite true to me. I read his Western Muslims and the Future of Islam the other year, and from what I can recall, his style can get rather abstruse at times (but then again, he is European, after all), but in between that, his vision for Muslim life in the Western world looks to be a fairly healthy and positive one, without being disconnected from classical Islamic jurisprudence.
                  Yes---you bring up an important point---Sharia may be a "scary" word in the Non-Muslim West, but if Muslim societies are going to work out healthy and wholistic ethical principles upon which to organize their lives and communities---Sharia (the schools of law and the various opinions within) has to be brought up and discussed. One of the problems of the Purists ideologies is that they have ditched the classical "tradition"...and instead made one up....one that is supposedly "Pure".

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by siam View Post
                    Yes---you bring up an important point---Sharia may be a "scary" word in the Non-Muslim West, but if Muslim societies are going to work out healthy and wholistic ethical principles upon which to organize their lives and communities---Sharia (the schools of law and the various opinions within) has to be brought up and discussed. One of the problems of the Purists ideologies is that they have ditched the classical "tradition"...and instead made one up....one that is supposedly "Pure".
                    Shari'a is such a tough issue to tackle here in the West, principally because the examples of supposedly Shari'a-oriented societies we observe from afar are so problematic, to say the least. (Hence the (rather silly) attempts to pass laws forbidding American courts from taking shari'a into consideration.) Admittedly, it doesn't help that even in classical expressions of shari'a (as in, e.g., Reliance of the Traveler), there's a lot there that Westerners (I think rightly) find highly objectionable.

                    But there's always more to be said as to how else shari'a might be expressed and understood in the present day. It all comes down to, what does the real shari'a actually say?

                    Are you familiar with Cherif Bassiouni's book The Shari'a and Islamic Criminal Justice in Time of War and Peace?
                    "The Jesus Christ who saves sinners is the same Christ who beckons his followers to serious use of their minds for serious explorations of the world." - Mark Noll

                    "It cannot be that the people should grow in grace unless they give themselves to reading." - John Wesley

                    "Wherever men are still theological, there is still some chance of their being logical." - G. K. Chesterton

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by siam View Post
                      Salamalaikum JB,

                      Thankyou for your greetings, allow me to also wish you an early happy Christmas for the birthday of Jesus Christ (pbuh).

                      Islam may appear a monolith, but within it there are a range of opinions on a variety of issues. Unfortunately, since I seem to be the only Muslim here---the range of opinion is not represented....
                      I appreciate that you took time and effort to gain knowledge of Islam and know Muslims.
                      Hello, Siam. I didn't know we had a Muslim Twebber. I'm very happy to meet you!
                      I am Punkinhead.

                      "I have missed you, Oh Grand High Priestess of the Order of the Stirring Pot"

                      ~ Cow Poke aka CP aka Creacher aka ke7ejx's apprentice....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JB DoulosChristou View Post
                        Shari'a is such a tough issue to tackle here in the West, principally because the examples of supposedly Shari'a-oriented societies we observe from afar are so problematic, to say the least. (Hence the (rather silly) attempts to pass laws forbidding American courts from taking shari'a into consideration.) Admittedly, it doesn't help that even in classical expressions of shari'a (as in, e.g., Reliance of the Traveler), there's a lot there that Westerners (I think rightly) find highly objectionable.

                        But there's always more to be said as to how else shari'a might be expressed and understood in the present day. It all comes down to, what does the real shari'a actually say?

                        Are you familiar with Cherif Bassiouni's book The Shari'a and Islamic Criminal Justice in Time of War and Peace?
                        All human endeavors are flawed and so whatever the label of the law--even Western Laws --- have problems. But Islamic law has a very long history as well as much diversity. There is no such thing as real/false Sharia. (but, I suppose one might label good/bad law/fiqh ?)
                        There are universal ethico-moral principles and a generally agreed upon "purpose" of law (maqasid al Sharia)---there is also a methodology of arriving at law (Usul al-fiqh). Apart from all this, there is the history of the implementations and practices of Sharia/Fiqh...(these days there is some research on the Ottoman system....) ...so there is much to know of this complex subject.

                        I have not read the book "The Shari'a and Islamic Criminal Justice in Time of War and Peace"...what are your thoughts on it? what did you find interesting in it?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ke7ejx View Post
                          Hello, Siam. I didn't know we had a Muslim Twebber. I'm very happy to meet you!
                          Hello ke7ejx,
                          Nice to meet you too. Are you making any preparations for Christmas or is it too early yet?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by siam View Post
                            Hello ke7ejx,
                            Nice to meet you too. Are you making any preparations for Christmas or is it too early yet?
                            Just wrapping up a near finished semester. I'll pull out decorations tomorrow. How are you enjoying your December?
                            I am Punkinhead.

                            "I have missed you, Oh Grand High Priestess of the Order of the Stirring Pot"

                            ~ Cow Poke aka CP aka Creacher aka ke7ejx's apprentice....

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by siam View Post
                              All human endeavors are flawed and so whatever the label of the law--even Western Laws --- have problems. But Islamic law has a very long history as well as much diversity. There is no such thing as real/false Sharia. (but, I suppose one might label good/bad law/fiqh ?)
                              There are universal ethico-moral principles and a generally agreed upon "purpose" of law (maqasid al Sharia)---there is also a methodology of arriving at law (Usul al-fiqh). Apart from all this, there is the history of the implementations and practices of Sharia/Fiqh...(these days there is some research on the Ottoman system....) ...so there is much to know of this complex subject.

                              I have not read the book "The Shari'a and Islamic Criminal Justice in Time of War and Peace"...what are your thoughts on it? what did you find interesting in it?

                              Most of the references to Christianity are somewhat botched, but on the whole, Bassiouni presents an account of shari'a that seems pretty constructive. He rejects the usefulness of the historical dar al-islam/dar al-harb division (which is good), emphasizes that all existing Muslim-majority nations are signatories to numerous treaties and are bound by Islamic law to conduct themselves accordingly, puts great stress on the Islamic limits of just practice in war, stresses the strict evidentiary requirements for all hudud crimes, argues that ridda was never meant to be a hadd crime in and of itself, and suggests that stoning was never meant to be an Islamic punishment at all (but rather, historically, was Muhammad's use of Jewish law for cases involving the Jewish tribes in Medina). He also stresses that "freedom of religion is a basic human right that is universally recognized" and laments that "countries which profess to be Islamic are the ones which most restrict freedom of religion."

                              On the downside, however, Bassiouni attempts to carve out too much space for reprisals and ends up defending the Taliban, so that's a pretty steep downside (along with some of the usual anti-Western remarks). In the end, he stretches the "category of legitimate targets" far more broadly than international humanitarian law rightly limits it.

                              But I will say that Bassiouni's discussion of justified rebellion in Islamic law is exceptionally cogent, which was very helpful.
                              "The Jesus Christ who saves sinners is the same Christ who beckons his followers to serious use of their minds for serious explorations of the world." - Mark Noll

                              "It cannot be that the people should grow in grace unless they give themselves to reading." - John Wesley

                              "Wherever men are still theological, there is still some chance of their being logical." - G. K. Chesterton

                              Comment

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