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Thread: The evidence for Noah's Flood is overwhelming!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    So are you saying the 370 or so days in that box [ark] spans the 300,000,000 or so years of time?
    If you think there is some absurdity involved, I think it is on the part of those dating "300,000,000 or so years".
    http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html

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    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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  3. #13
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Moderated By: OBP

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    "rouge"? Et tu piggy? Et tu.

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  4. #14
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hansgeorg View Post
    If you think there is some absurdity involved, I think it is on the part of those dating "300,000,000 or so years".
    I did not say an absurdity - you did to my question. So what flood evidence do you mean?
    Attachment 11856

    Attachment 11855
    Last edited by 37818; 12-20-2016 at 10:04 PM.
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    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpayne85 View Post
    One area that there is proof for a global flood lies in the Mojave desert of the United States' Midwest. The sedimentary layers and fossils are the most noticeable. I have personally seen the plaques depicting evidence that it was an ancient sea.
    Welcome to Tweb m85 .

    The fact that an area was at one time underwater does not mean that the entire globe was submerged a few thousand years ago. What you need to do is show a single layer that stretch across the entire planet was underwater. That is something that nobody can do and not for a want of trying. In fact, it was the early geologists (late 18th and early 19th century), many of who were members of the clergy, who went out looking for evidence of a global flood (and quite confident that they would find it) who first discovered that not only was there no evidence for such a recent catastrophe but instead all of the evidence was pointing against it. This has not changed since that time.

    Just one of the many issues is the fact that the layers that are often identified as "flood layers" contain things that cannot be the result of a flood. Things like deserts, paleosols, evaporites, forests stacked one atop another and even limestone or chalk layers (the latter of which while formed underwater cannot happen during a flood). Things like this are found all over the world at every geologic layer.

    Quote Originally Posted by mpayne85 View Post
    Other proof is the oil fields. All the dinosaurs and other animals were brought together by the rising waters and undercurrents during the flood. Oil fields are these gathering spots where mass graves where the decaying bodies of all these large animals assembled.
    Ouch. Actually, it is a long discredited myth that oil fields are the result of decaying dinosaur remains. In short, petroleum was formed from the remains of microscopic plants and animals (primarily the plants) that lived in the oceans millions of years ago that got buried and were acted upon by bacteria while under tremendous amounts of pressure and heat. No dinosaurs or other terrestrial animals were involved in the making in spite of what some oil companies implied in the advertising years ago (which wasn't really intended to be taken seriously)


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  6. #16
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    I did not say an absurdity - you did to my question. So what flood evidence do you mean?
    Attachment 11856

    Attachment 11855
    I mean nearly the entire part which is sedimentary rock or where metamorphic rock shows traces of sediments of aquatic nature with marine fossils, while being on land.

    I mean the Triassic, the Jurassic, the Cretaceous, anywhere you get fossils. I mean Permian before Triassic as well as Palaeocene after Cretaceous.

    Permian and Triassic in Karoo? Flood in Karoo. Jurassic in Bristol? Flood in Bristol. Palaeocene in Linz? Flood in Linz. And so on. I consider all of these as evidence of the Flood. And since you get things like that all over the world, I consider it was global.
    http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html

    Thanks, Sparko, for telling how I add the link here!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    What you need to do is show a single layer that stretch across the entire planet was underwater. That is something that nobody can do and not for a want of trying.
    Unless the fossil finds like from "Permian" or "Palaeocene" or "Mesozoic" or "Precambrian" are in fact a single layer of bioosphere, where even land vertebrates fossilise due to lots of water bringing on lots of mud.
    http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html

    Thanks, Sparko, for telling how I add the link here!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Things like deserts, paleosols, evaporites, forests stacked one atop another and even limestone or chalk layers (the latter of which while formed underwater cannot happen during a flood).
    Limestone can be from shrimps getting caught in acid during flood.
    http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html

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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Ouch. Actually, it is a long discredited myth that oil fields are the result of decaying dinosaur remains. In short, petroleum was formed from the remains of microscopic plants and animals (primarily the plants) that lived in the oceans millions of years ago that got buried and were acted upon by bacteria while under tremendous amounts of pressure and heat. No dinosaurs or other terrestrial animals were involved in the making in spite of what some oil companies implied in the advertising years ago (which wasn't really intended to be taken seriously)
    Apart from "millions of years ago", this is interesting. Flood with lots of mud layers provides the pressure. Some places also the heat.

    In fact, if acid burns shrimps to limestone, the heat from that reaction may have helped forming the petrol.

    Now, the petrol coming from microscopic plants and animals is very interesting, meaning that if so, no human remains were involved in producing petrol. While using plastic objects I am on and off wondering whether I should give the poor nephelim a decent burial, but on your view that might not be necessary?
    http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html

    Thanks, Sparko, for telling how I add the link here!

  10. #20
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hansgeorg View Post
    Unless the fossil finds like from "Permian" or "Palaeocene" or "Mesozoic" or "Precambrian" are in fact a single layer of bioosphere, where even land vertebrates fossilise due to lots of water bringing on lots of mud.
    We have a lot of fossils that formed that cannot be the result of a flood. Just sticking with those that include dinosaurs for the sake of brevity and simplicity we can start with those that are the result of a collapsing sand dune.

    The famous fossil of a Velociraptor locked in combat with a Protoceratops discovered in the southern Gobi Desert in 1971 is just such an example (although there is a small chance a sand storm was responsible -- either way a global flood was hardly responsible).




    And that's hardly the only Protoceratops that had been discovered that had been buried alive in aeolian (wind deposited) sediments and not drowned. Due to its orientation this guy was buried (again probably under a collapsing sand dune or something similar and not something that drowned) and was trying to dig its way out when it died.




    Aside from Protoceratops, several examples of another early certopsian dinosaur that lived in Asia, Psittacosaurus, has also been found that have either been buried in massive sandstorms or under collapsing sand dunes.

    And like the aforementioned Velociraptor and Protoceratops there is also yet another ceratopsian, this time the iconic Triceratops, that has been found in sandstone in Montana with a Nanotyrannus (a small tyrannosaurid relative of the T rex). In this case it appears that they killed each other and the corpses had been picked over by scavengers before being buried under sand. What exactly took place is still unknown since, at least the last time I heard, the discoverer is selling the fossils still encased in their plaster field jackets on the open market at Bonham’s auction house in New York without them being properly scientifically examined. The only thing known for certain was that they had been buried in dry sand.




    ETA: Another non-ceratopsian dinosaur, this time a relatively small sauropod known as Seitaad was found a couple years ago in Utah and had also been entombed by the collapse of a sand dune.

    And that is just dinosaur fossils resulting from collapsing sand dunes or sandstorms.

    Now let's turn to another major source for dinosaur fossils that have absolutely nothing to do with flooding. In fact in this cases it is the exact opposite -- the result of severe drought.

    How do advocates of a global flood explain why a substantial number of the bonebeds that have been uncovered are the result of drought -- local water sources drying up -- in layers that they identify as being laid down during a global deluge? I had a thread listing a couple dozen such sites that contained the remains of dinosaurs (there are others containing creatures that lived at times when they weren't around) including the world famous Cleveland-Lloyd Dinosaur Quarry (CLDQ)[1] but it was lost during the great crash of 2013

    Other sites include the Mother's Day Quarry, Canyon Bone Bed, Dino Ridge Quarry and Westside Quarry all in Montana, Ghost Ranch in New Mexico, Dry Mesa Dinosaur Quarry in western Colorado, Douglas Quarry in Dinosaur National Monument, a quarry just west of Arches National Park in southeast Utah, the Patagonia, Argentina site where the remains of Titanosaur were discovered and a couple in northern Madagascar. And here is a thread I started in 2014 describing a bonebed full of pterosaur remains in Brazil that was the result of either drought or possibly a sandstorm.

    Next, what about those creatures that have fallen into death traps ranging from sink holes to tar pits and died? We find numerous such examples all over the world. A half a dozen Utahraptors were found in what once was quicksand in eastern Utah just north of Arches National Park last year and several Arrhinoceratops were found at the bottom of what is likely an ancient sinkhole north of Drumheller in Alberta are just two examples. Another is the still active Adams Hill Tar Pit (a.k.a. Fort Sill Tar Pit) in southwestern Oklahoma that has been trapping creatures (and people) for roughly 250 million years now.

    Finally, some of the most famous sites, like many of those found in northeastern China (for instance, the Cretaceous Yixian and Jiufotang formations that comprise the Jehol Biota), are the result of creatures being buried in volcanic ash and debris much like the humans living in Pompeii and ‎Herculaneum were in 79 AD. Below are images of a Psittacosaurus and a Mei long (a duck-sized troodontid dinosaur), the latter is preserved curled up in a bird-like sleeping position, indicating that it was killed by poisonous volcanic gases before being buried




    If these took place during a flood they would have mixed with the water and not left distinctive layers that we see.

    And please note I was only referring to dinosaurs in these examples. I could give many, many more examples involving other creatures but hopefully these should suffice to illustrate my point.








    1. See here for an account (written a few years before the paper cited) in the popular media: Utah Dinos May Have Been Killed by Drought
    Last edited by rogue06; 12-22-2016 at 12:39 AM.

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  11. Amen shunyadragon, Bret amen'd this post.

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