What is Dark Energy?

[Christianbookworm]

So, we still are that youngster that thinks he has a handle on a subject, but doesn't fully realize the amount of knowledge he still lacks?

[Sparko]

So, we still are that youngster that thinks he has a handle on a subject, but doesn't fully realize the amount of knowledge he still lacks?

no. scientists are aware that they have no real idea what dark matter and energy are and that they might just be fudge factors.

[37818]

The extra mass could be caused by some other phenomena that we have not discovered yet, or some change in our calculation regarding gravity, or any other number of other things. Sure adding "dark matter" fixes the problem, but that is because it is a "fudge factor" and that is what fudge factors do. They provide a solution to a problem until the ACTUAL solution comes along. When astronomers believed in epicycles, they had to explain why planets seemed to go backwards in their orbits every so often. Well epicycles explained it perfectly and the math worked out exactly! Did that mean that epicycles were real? No. Because once they realize that the Earth went around the sun and so did the planets, then the retrograde problem went away because Earth was orbiting faster than the outer planets so they appeared to go backwards when we overtook them in our orbit.

Nobody knows what dark matter is. It is just a label for unknown mass needed to explain certain observations. I personally think it makes more sense to believe that it is a flaw in our science and formulas, than there is some mysterious matter out there that we can't see or detect in any way but it has mass and yet no other physicality.

Actually there is a theory that the gravitational effect of relativity is the cause of the extra mass.

[Christianbookworm]

no. scientists are aware that they have no real idea what dark matter and energy are and that they might just be fudge factors.

Was that the Enlightenment period? AKA the time period where Europe got Sophomore Syndrome! At least we now admit when we don't know something. Or am I exaggerating early modern European arrogance?

[Sparko]

Actually there is a theory that the gravitational effect of relativity is the cause of the extra mass.

I am not a scientist but I am leaning toward "There is something fundamental that we don't understand about how the universe expands yet" Than that there is actually extra mass and energy at all. Occam's Razor and all that. It is far more likely that we just don't understand something crucial yet, than 80% of the universe is made up of undetectable mass and energy that magically expands the universe.

[Kbertsche]

It supposedly makes up the majority of the universe. Yet we can't see it. It also means that it should be right here among us. So why can't we find it on Earth? or in our Solar System? Why does it only exist "out there?" Why are we so special that it doesn't exist right here?


also "dark" in Dark matter and energy doesn't refer to it being dark, but being "unknown"

If dark matter exists, then it DOES exist "right here". But since we don't know what it is, we don't know how to detect it.

I lean toward "dark matter" being real; I think it is the simplest explanation of the data that has already been mentioned in this thread. The main alternative to dark matter is MOND (modified Newtonian dynamics), but it is hard for the various MOND theories to explain everything that dark matter does (e.g. the bullet cluster).

[Sparko]

If dark matter exists, then it DOES exist "right here". But since we don't know what it is, we don't know how to detect it.

I lean toward "dark matter" being real; I think it is the simplest explanation of the data that has already been mentioned in this thread. The main alternative to dark matter is MOND (modified Newtonian dynamics), but it is hard for the various MOND theories to explain everything that dark matter does (e.g. the bullet cluster).

I lean toward it being a mistaken idea about the expansion of the universe, or some unknown flaw in our math on the topic. Much simpler explanation that some invisible mass that we can't measure in any way.

[hansgeorg]

basically dark matter and energy are "fudge factors" used to explain holes in our current understanding and math regarding the universe. Neither has ever been detected. It will probably end up with new math and concepts that explain things like the expansion speed of the universe without dark matter or energy.

Also one of the arguments for Geocentrism against Modern World View.

[Sparko]

Also one of the arguments for Geocentrism against Modern World View.

no.

[hansgeorg]

no.

I wasn't saying it was a conclusive one.

I am saying it is used as one. Whether it is conclusive, can be actually debated.

Has JohnMartin brought this one up in a non-locked thread? What was the answer?

But as to its being used, I do frequent other Geocentrics sufficiently to know about what arguments they use.

[Sparko]

I wasn't saying it was a conclusive one.

I am saying it is used as one. Whether it is conclusive, can be actually debated.

Has JohnMartin brought this one up in a non-locked thread? What was the answer?

But as to its being used, I do frequent other Geocentrics sufficiently to know about what arguments they use.

This thread is not about Geocentrism, so don't derail it.

[Cerebrum123]

https://www.newscientist.com/article...f-dark-matter/

Looks like "modified gravity" may make "dark matter" unnecessary.

[Jedidiah]

https://www.newscientist.com/article...f-dark-matter/

Looks like "modified gravity" may make "dark matter" unnecessary.

Very interesting. I look forward to learning more about this.

[Kbertsche]

https://www.newscientist.com/article...f-dark-matter/

Looks like "modified gravity" may make "dark matter" unnecessary.

This is basically another version of MOND. I am skeptical that it can explain gravitational lensing as well as dark matter does. And it would require a new theory to explain why the force of gravity does not fall off as 1/r^2, or the gravitational potential as 1/r. This is a very tall order.

[Sparko]

https://www.newscientist.com/article...f-dark-matter/

Looks like "modified gravity" may make "dark matter" unnecessary.

and it looks like the mainstream fuddy duddies are agin' it! That is usually a clue that they are on the right track. Upending the status quo. Everyone mocks and say no, and then eats crow. Happens with every new revolution in science. Doesn't mean that this guy is correct, but whatever IS correct will be sure to upset the entrenched scientists with a stake in the old ideas.