As I live and breathe!
Announcement
Collapse
Civics 101 Guidelines
Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less
�He� and �she� are now �ze� at Oxford
Collapse
X
-
You should probably take more care CP to make clear that this is not official Oxford university policy. It was a leaflet distributed on campus by students.
I have mixed feelings about such pronouns. I have never used 'Ze' etc in my life toward anyone and wouldn't know how to use it properly. But I fairly consistently use they/them/their to refer to people of unknown gender and prefer it to saying or writing "his/her".
I am aware that many languages have neutral genders and hence neutral pronouns, and it makes sense to attempt to fill that gap in the English language (which I do with they/them/their). English itself has changed over the centuries with regard to its pronouns, with the phasing out of the singular second person pronouns thee/thou/thy and their replacement with the plural second person pronouns you/you/yours, which now makes things awkward because you often have to clarify singular from plural by saying "you all" or "y'all" or somesuch for the plural. So I think the natural choice for the further evolution of the language is to take the neutral 3rd person plural pronouns (they/them/their) and apply them to the singular case, as happened with you/you/yours a century or so ago.
But with all language changes, it's simply a matter of what wins out at the end of the day. Language changes all the time, as people change how they speak. I'm sure a grammarian like Tolkien - who even invented his own languages (I note that in Elvish "The 3rd person plural had no gender distinction") - would be absolutely fascinated by such changes. My friends who have studied linguistics are equally fascinated by the continuing evolution of our language and such changes to our pronouns."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
Comment
-
Originally posted by Starlight View PostYou should probably take more care CP to make clear that this is not official Oxford university policy. It was a leaflet distributed on campus by students.
I have mixed feelings about such pronouns. I have never used 'Ze' etc in my life toward anyone and wouldn't know how to use it properly. But I fairly consistently use they/them/their to refer to people of unknown gender and prefer it to saying or writing "his/her".
From the Independent....
Last edited by Cow Poke; 12-13-2016, 02:45 AM.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
As I live and breathe!
Comment
-
Originally posted by Abigail View PostIs this 'ze' going to be for everybody?. Because I personally will find it offensive to be labelled a 'ze' - though I realize in modern liberal society the only identities that count are gay and transexual. And referring to someone like Jane Austen in a lecture as 'ze' is laughably stupid. Really I would like to see both Oxford and Cambridge bite the dirt just like the UK Labour Party is busy doing because they have all left their oringinal purpose. In the case of the Labour Party from being for any and all poor people to actively discriminating against certain sections of the poor. In the case of Oxford and Cambridge small minded bigotry and over-the-top political correctness of the new bourgeoisie have replaced a pursuit of knowledge.
Gender-neutral titles
I shall hereafter refer to Starlight as "Mux Starlight".
(not really)The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Abigail View Postjust like the UK Labour Party is busy doing because they have all left their oringinal purpose. In the case of the Labour Party from being for any and all poor people to actively discriminating against certain sections of the poor."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
Comment
-
English has long had a neutral pronoun - it. Use it.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostEnglish has long had a neutral pronoun - it. Use it.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
I would replace he and she wherever they occurred with "ze". Microsoft Find and Replace FTW!!!That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI don't give a flyin' flip WHERE it came from. And, you should probably take more care, SL, in saying it's a leaflet distributed by "students" - it's actually from the University's Student Union. But that doesn't make it any less dumb, as it seems the current trend on university campuses is that the inmates are in charge of the asylum.
"Ze" is absolutely ludicrous, and sounds downright stupid. It sounds like somebody's doing a really bad job of a foreign accent.
From the Independent....
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by Cow Poke, Yesterday, 04:44 PM
|
4 responses
31 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Starlight
Yesterday, 07:12 PM
|
||
Started by VonTastrophe, Yesterday, 01:41 PM
|
7 responses
59 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Sparko
Yesterday, 02:57 PM
|
||
Started by seer, Yesterday, 07:59 AM
|
11 responses
56 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by seer
Yesterday, 04:55 PM
|
||
Started by Cow Poke, 05-20-2024, 11:05 AM
|
14 responses
108 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by NorrinRadd
Yesterday, 03:27 PM
|
||
Started by CivilDiscourse, 05-20-2024, 05:24 AM
|
40 responses
208 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by rogue06
Yesterday, 05:06 PM
|
Comment