Age Gap Relationships/When are we Ready for Relationships?

[ApologiaPhoenix]

Well it depends on the person I think but I was thinking more of the age of college then actually getting a college degree. After 25 the success rate of marriages goes way up. I mean way up. But of course, we all know people who were younger who were married 70 years or more and people who were older who divorced in the first year. All that to say that statistics don't define any individual.

Mrs. Pilgrim and I got married during our seminary days. During a reading week. We were 27. 12 years later and one child and we're still having fun. That's another thing. marriage, children, job searching, house hunting, each of these is a particular kind of stress. A lot of times a couple will get into all of them at one time, as young newly weds. That kind of stress takes a toll on people. Success rates go way up when couples wait at least 5 years for the first child. It's hard to balance all that other stuff you do as you begin life together for the first time when kids are there right away.

Having said all that, you're the kind of guy who seems to have lots of good guidance all around you and mentoring so you'll probably get good advice from those close to you when the time comes. Honestly, I can't imagine you having anything but a good marriage from all I've seen from you over the past several years.

Thanks. If you ever see me on FB or AIM, I'm always up for a chat about this. I've made it a point to listen to those who have been married happily for a long time to find out their secrets, as well as observe and see where I think others are going wrong. I'm sure over time you've seen many of my thoughts on the topic here.

[themuzicman]

I can't address the first question because I never gave it any thought. I only know that historically speaking, partners being of comparable age is a modern phenomenon. In fact, it was common practice for an OLDER gentleman to marry a girl who had basically just started to menstruate. After all, an older man would be (all those qualifiers in your personal philosophy) financially established, which is all that mattered (because you didn't have the programs that we have in place now to aid the poor). Of course, women were at the mercy of their husbands, too. I imagine that even now, a younger girl would be at the mercy of the older male.

Taking your "personal philosophy" into consideration, my wife and I wouldn't have married at the ages of 21 and 20. I had no degree, no job, no credit, when we tied the knot, and she had even less.


Marriage for love is also a modern phenomenon....

To me, this is a subjugation of women issue. Just because it was common practice in the past doesn't mean that it's a proper practice. In the past, a woman had to be attached to a man to keep from being impoverished and probably a prostitute. She went from attachment to her father to an attachment to a husband, and usually fairly young to a husband who was arranged for her.

The reasons are obvious: Without other options, women are forced to take what they can get. Men are naturally attracted to sexually mature young women, and a man of 42 who lost his last wife of 29 in childbirth will be a good provider and protector of his neighbors cute little 14 year old daughter, so she is married to him and must have sex with hi, whether she wants to or not.

In the last centuries, this has begun to change. It has become more possible for women to sustain an economic life for themselves and to live apart from a male protector. As this has developed, the subjugation of women to older men has subsided, and women have a far greater say in who they marry. This is generally a good thing.

However, this means that a woman must be mature enough to grok what marriage is, what qualities are desirable in a mate, and have the maturity engage such a relationship.

Granted that there are women who may be mature enough to make such an evaluation at a younger age than others. However, for the most part, a woman isn't ready to make such a decision until she's at least 21 and has been living (economically anyway) on her own for a while.

Thus, to say that a 27 year old and a 15 year old are somehow engaged in a mutually respecting relationship is almost beyond credulity. This, as with the past, is almost certainly a 27 year old engaging in the old-time tradition of subjugating a young woman who doesn't really know what she's getting into, to his whims because men tend to be attracted to young, sexually mature women.

Michael

[mossrose]

One of the things that attracted me to Mr. mossy was the fact that he was already much more mature than the boys I knew who were my peers.

He had recently lost his mother, and so he and his brother were on their own. His education was mostly finished, and he had an excellent work ethic.

Because I was somewhat more mature than other girls my age, I found him to be stable and not interested in the immature things that my guy friends were interested in.

So perhaps that speaks to a woman's desire for someone who can provide for and protect her. If I had been a few years older, I still probably would have attracted to him, for the same reasons.

Because of that, I think it is a good idea for people, generally, to wait until they are a little more mature and have their ducks in a row before committing to marriage. The age difference didn't matter to us, but that is not the rule.

[Eeset-Shadowgrl]

The reasons are obvious: Without other options, women are forced to take what they can get. Men are naturally attracted to sexually mature young women, and a man of 42 who lost his last wife of 29 in childbirth will be a good provider and protector of his neighbors cute little 14 year old daughter, so she is married to him and must have sex with hi, whether she wants to or not.

IMichael

Hi Michael. I think its cute how you slipped that in. But Mary was 15 at the time Joseph married her.

[themuzicman]

Hi Michael. I think its cute how you slipped that in. But Mary was 15 at the time Joseph married her.

And that was part of the culture of subjugation that existed (at that time by necessity), in that a woman had to be attached to a man (father, husband, brother, etc.) in order to survive.

Times change.

Michael

[nomad]

Those marriages that were arranged or forced were often time ones of coercion that were not necessarily very happy ones especially for the young girl.

I know you didn't mean to imply this (at least, I think you didn't), but arranged marriages are not necessarily ruinous. In India, the practice is still very widespread, and I know several couples whose marriages were arranged, who barely know (sometimes not at all) their husband before they were married, and their marriages are as happy (as far as I can tell) as any others around me. These were not coerced, really - we're talking 25+ year old adults, well educated electrical engineers (some with post-bachelor degrees), living in the US far from family - and still chose to accept their arranged marriages.

[nomad]

hope you don't take this personally :) just, I've done some reading on this particular topic, and there is some misinformation here. Not just you, but you were a convenient place to start :)

Yes, and back then women didn't have access to contraceptives, so couldn't be relied upon as steady workers because of pregnancy issues....

Not sure when exactly you were talking about, but before, say, 1800 (and even since), contraceptives were both well known, effective, and widely practices, even among the poor. Such were usually herbal in nature, but things like savin (juniper), tansy, and rue are very effective when taken carefully (yes, you can poison yourself, so it required the passing on of this knowledge from mother to daughter). There are even modern time anecdotes for the seeds of Queen Anne's Lace being used (one woman did not get pregnant for 10 years, until she went on a trip with her husband and forgot her mason jar of seeds). See the book 'Eve's Herbs' by John Riddle for more information on this. This abated with time, but Lydia Pinkham's herbal compound (containing several known contraceptive herbs) has been continuously for sale since the late 19th century, and was successfully saved from banning by a concerted effort of women to their lawmakers.

You can still get many of these herbs in your local organic supermarket; also, some herbal compounds include them (my wife's 'Healthy Female' or whatever had astralagus and angelica in it). The ones that say not to take if you are pregnant or nursing, watch out for if you are trying to get pregnant. I now wonder if that's sometimes why certain women have trouble getting pregnant - could be their vitamins and/or supplements. Many of them have to be prepared certain ways though; sage (salvia officianalis) was known in ancient times, but it's used in so many italian dishes it must be more complicated than that.

Marriage for love may not have been as common among the elite (who had lots of capital and the desire to preserve it), but it was common among the lower classes - english common law rolls are filled with common law marriages that started with marriage vows taken privately, usually with consummation (and a large number of disputes relating to such vows gone bad as well!).

[Zero Tolerance]

@ CodewordConduit,

My friend, the role of God in our decision to tie the knot, if I were to write a full-length article on it, would still not do it justice. When I proposed Labor Day weekend of 2004, our parents agreed to the match, but wanted us to wait until at least I graduated. After speaking with the pastor who was to marry us, we agreed upon the scripture that "a man will leave his mother and father and cling to his wife" (paraphrased, of course), and we decided to get married in May of 2005 instead of May 2006. But God has indeed been merciful in his blessings. We have three kids, a new car to transport all five of us, and we want for nothing. We even have a few luxuries that we shouldn't, and God has been gracious in our follies. What he has planned for us, I do not know, but it has to be something serious, because I can tell you plenty of times when I, as the head of household, have messed up.

But I agree with everything said here. By no means do I agree that the wife should be totally subjugated to the husband. Yes, scripture tells us that wives should submit and that God cursed Eve (and thus, women) that she should always desire for her husband, but Jesus also teaches that we should love our wives like he loved the church, and also, the greatest act of love is to die for another. We both have a mutual understanding of our covenant (rather than legal arrangement) between ourselves and God, and we strive to fulfill it.

My only regret in terms of the "death of patriarchy" as a result of feminists (so-called "empowered" and "liberated" women) is no-fault divorce. But that is another discussion.

In my house, we don't even use the "D" word. We work out our problems. But I also speak from the experience of a man whose wife is virtuous, and sets a great example of Godliness even when I fail.

Some of you know that scripture...when a man "fails," the prayers of his wife will save him. Etc, etc.

[Zero Tolerance]

Also, if I found out my 15 year-old was dating a 20-something year-old, I would rage.

[CodewordConduit]

Hey thanks for the info Nomad, I'll have to look into it. 'til I've done the subject justice I'll stop using the argument :)

Zero, I'm so glad things are working out for you guys; it's always nice to hear about the relationships that go well. Throws a little sunshine on my perspective, so as to speak

[sushigurl]

When you are young, like me (: i think the first couple months of a relationship are more likely to go un healthy fast. The more time you spend with someone in the beginning of a relationship, the more likely you are to become easily infactuated, then bored after 6 months. I think a key factor in any lasting relationship, is taking it slow in the beginning. Of course when you are still in high school, it seems that whoever you are dating is THE ONE. As you get older, i assume prespective of life plays an important role. In my opinion, better relationships happen later in peoples lives. 24-whenever (:

[Jin-Roh]

Also, if I found out my 15 year-old was dating a 20-something year-old, I would rage.

It really depends on the gender of the kid though doesn't it?

If it was a son, I'd think "wow. He's growing up fast. Good for him." if it was a daughter, I'd think "who is this immature idiot that she's dating."

[themuzicman]

It really depends on the gender of the kid though doesn't it?

If it was a son, I'd think "wow. He's growing up fast. Good for him." if it was a daughter, I'd think "who is this immature idiot that she's dating."

I disagree. I'd be disappointed either way.

Michael

[CodewordConduit]

I disagree. I'd be disappointed either way.

Michael

Agreed.

If a woman over the age of twenty is dating a boy under the age of sixteen, she ain't doing it for any nobler reason than if the roles were reversed. I've had offers from 15/16 year olds and honestly if I were to have said yes; it would not have been anything to do with their personalities. Which is why I totally refused. Besides, I would probably have warped their minds or something. Teenagers should really only date other teenagers until they're at the age of legal consent anyway; just for sensibles.

ETA: Some 15/16 year olds have great personalities, obviously, it's just the shallow/cocky ones that have tried to come onto me.