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Thread: Is ASCII Code relevant for Apocalypse 13:18? I think so

  1. #121
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    The fishermen were the first priests?
    Of the new Covenant, second to Christ.

    Besides, some were not fishermen, but one a Levite who had sunk to tax collecting, one a zealot which may mean he had back ground as anti-Roman terrorist (or sympathiser with such).

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    2 thes 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


    basically until he is revealed you are doing nothing but deceiving us.
    Unless of course I am right that one of the above is the man of sin already revealed.

    I have other criteria than just ASCII for the two.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faber View Post
    To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood--and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father--to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. (Revelation 1:5-6, NASB)
    Any baptised is a priest in one way, but ordained priests are on top of that priests in another way too.
    http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html

    Thanks, Sparko, for telling how I add the link here!

  2. #122
    tWebber Faber's Avatar
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    Outside of the high priests of the old covenant, which has been abolished, I see no indication that there are different levels of priesthood. We all have complete access to the Father through Jesus.

  3. Amen mossrose amen'd this post.
  4. #123
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faber View Post
    Outside of the high priests of the old covenant, which has been abolished, I see no indication that there are different levels of priesthood. We all have complete access to the Father through Jesus.
    Then you explain the position of the eleven.

    If, for instance, any person who has sinned after Baptism has, in himself, without any intermediate, "complete accuss to the Father through Jesus", what about John 20?20 And when he had said this, he shewed them his hands, and his side. The disciples, therefore, were glad, when they saw the Lord.

    21 He said therefore to them again; Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them, and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 *Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose you shall retain, they are retained. 24 Now Thomas, one of the twelve, who is called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

    We see from the last bit that we are talking of the twelve disciples. Here is the Haydock comment on the verses:

    Ver. 21. As the Father hath sent me. The word mission, when applied to our Saviour Christ, sometimes signifies his eternal procession from the Father, and sometimes his mission, as he was sent into the world to become man, and the Redeemer of mankind: the first mission agrees with him, as the eternal Son of God; the second, as man, or as both God and man. The mission which Christ here gives his apostles, is like this latter mission, with this great difference, that graces and divine gifts were bestowed on Christ, even as man, without measure: and the apostles had a much lesser share in both these missions. See St. Augustine, lib. iv. de Trin. chap. xix. xx. tom. 4. p. 829. and seq. (Witham)

    Jesus Christ here shews his commission, and so giveth power to his apostles to forgive sins, as when he gave them commission to preach and baptize throughout the world, he made mention of his own power. Hence, whosoever denies the apostles, and their successors, the right of preaching, baptizing, and remitting sins, must consequently deny that Christ, as man, had the power to do the same. St. Cyprian, in the 3rd century, ep. lxxiii. says: "for the Lord, in the first place, gave to St. Peter, on whom he built his Church, super quem ĉdificavit Ecclesiam, the power that what he loosed on earth, should be loosed also in heaven. And after his resurrection, he speaks also to his apostles, saying, as the Father sent me, &c. whose sins you shall forgive," &c. Why, on this occasion, passing over the other apostles, does Jesus Christ address Peter alone? Because he was the mouth, and chief of the apostles. (St. Chrysostom, de Sacerd. lib. ii. chap. 1.)

    Ver. 22. Receive ye the Holy Ghost. It was said, (John vii. 39.) that the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not glorified. The sense must needs be, that the holy Spirit was not given in that solemn manner, nor with so large an effusion of spiritual gifts and graces, till the day of Pentecost, after Christ's ascension: but the just, at all times, from the beginning of the world, were sanctified by the grace of the Holy Ghost, as no doubt the apostles were, before this time. Now at this present, he gave them the power of forgiving sins. (Witham)

    Some say, that our Saviour did not then confer the Holy Ghost on his disciples, but only prepared them for the receiving of the Holy Ghost. But surely we may understand, that even then they received some portion of spiritual grace, the power, not indeed of raising the dead, and working other miracles, but of forgiving sins. (St. Chrysostom, hom. lxxxv. in Joan.)

    St. Cyril of Alexandria, speaking of the remission of sins, promised in this text, asks, "How then, or why, did Christ impart to his disciples a power, which belongs to the divinity alone? It seemed good to him, that they, who had within themselves his divine Spirit, should likewise possess the power of forgiving sins, and of retaining such as they judged expedient; that Holy Spirit, according to his good pleasure, forgiving and retaining, through the ministry of men." (In Joan. lib. xii. chap. 1.)

    Ver. 23. Whose sins you shall forgive,[2] &c. These words clearly express the power of forgiving sins, which, as God, he gave to his apostles, and to their successors, bishops and priests, to forgive sins in his name, as his ministers, and instruments, even though they are sinners themselves. For in this, they act not by their own power, nor in their own name, but in the name of God, who as the principal cause, always remitteth sins. This is generally allowed to be done by God's ministers in the sacrament of baptism, as to the remission of original sin; and the Catholic Church has always held the same of God's ministers, in the sacrament of penance. (See the Protestant Common Prayer Book, in the Visitation of the Sick.)

    Whose sins you shall retain, they are retained: by which we see, that to priests is given a power to be exercised, not only by forgiving, but also by retaining; not only by absolving and loosing, but also by binding, by refusing, or deferring absolution, according to the dispositions that are found in sinners, when they accuse themselves of their sins. From hence must needs follow an obligation on the sinner's part, to declare, and confess their sins in particular, to the ministers of God, who are appointed the spiritual judges, and physicians of their souls. A judge must know the cause, and a physician the distemper: the one to pronounce a just sentence, the other to prescribe suitable remedies. (Witham)

    See here the commission, stamped by the broad seal of heaven, by virtue of which, the pastors of Christ's Church absolve repenting sinners upon their confession. (Challoner)

    Ver. 24. Thomas ... was not with them. Yet no doubt the like power of forgiving sins was given to him, either at this time or afterwards. See St. Cyril. (Witham)
    http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id113.html
    http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html

    Thanks, Sparko, for telling how I add the link here!

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