Straus on Islamic Terrorism

[siam]

"Killing because Jesus commanded them to? "

The Western Military (U.S. in particular) are an example--- (How is it you do not know this stuff?---do you not follow World news at all? please expand your news consumption diet)

The Crusader culture of the U.S. military
Here is a website that celebrates such ugliness
http://www.barenakedislam.com/2013/1...-u-s-military/

and an article
http://www.worldbulletin.net/haber/1...he-us-military

and here an article of how the U.S. military weapons are inscribed with BIBLE VERSES
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-mil...ory?id=9575794

(and to be fair---the U.K. military also had problems of this type)
In case you are unaware---The "Crusades" were a HOLY WAR by the Christian Church....

and here is news about a controversy about Christian soldiers trying to convert Iraqi and Afghani (sometimes at gunpoint)
https://www.democracynow.org/2009/5/...stian_military

ISIS is simply a mirror image of the U.S. culture....except ISIS is fringe---but in the U.S. this culture seems to be mainstream....(even President Trump and his people represents this kind of culture...)

[siam]

Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) and other Muslim Generals and their conduct in war....

First, lets start with the Conduct of (Western)"Christians" during the Crusades and the contrast it with the Muslim General Salahuddin Al Ayubi (A man admired even by his enemies such as Richard the Lionheart)

https://www.christianhistoryinstitut...ule/crusaders/

The Crusades were, or at least they seem from a modern perspective, a nightmarish atrocity and one of the worst crimes ever committed in the name of Christ.

---The Crusaders murdered everyone, Christians, Muslims, Jews...everyone in Jerusalem. It was a massacre...

Here is an account of the conduct of Salauddin al Ayubi the Muslim General who allowed his enemies to leave Jerusalem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin
Capture of Jerusalem
Saladin had captured almost every Crusader city. Saladin preferred to take Jerusalem without bloodshed and offered generous terms, but those inside refused to leave their holy city, vowing to destroy it in a fight to the death rather than see it handed over peacefully. Jerusalem capitulated to his forces on Friday, 2 October 1187, after a siege. When the siege had started, Saladin was unwilling[citation needed] to promise terms of quarter to the Frankish inhabitants of Jerusalem. Balian of Ibelin threatened to kill every Muslim hostage, estimated at 5,000, and to destroy Islam's holy shrines of the Dome of the Rock and the al-Aqsa Mosque if such quarter were not provided. Saladin consulted his council and the terms were accepted. The agreement was read out through the streets of Jerusalem so that everyone might within forty days provide for himself and pay to Saladin the agreed tribute for his freedom.[97] An unusually low ransom for the times (around $50 today) was to be paid for each Frank in the city, whether man, woman, or child, but Saladin, against the wishes of his treasurers, allowed many families who could not afford the ransom to leave.[98][99] Patriarch Heraclius of Jerusalem organised and contributed to a collection that paid the ransoms for about 18,000 of the poorer citizens, leaving another 15,000 to be enslaved. Saladin's brother al-Adil "asked Saladin for a thousand of them for his own use and then released them on the spot." Most of the foot soldiers were sold into slavery.[100] Upon the capture of Jerusalem, Saladin summoned the Jews and permitted them to resettle in the city.[101] In particular, the residents of Ashkelon, a large Jewish settlement, responded to his request.[102]


Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) and war
The Quran lays down some rules of war---that it should be for a "just cause" which it specifies as against oppression. It should be defensive, the non-combatants and resources of the earth not to be harmed, Prisoners of war to be treated humanely, War should be ended as soon as possible....etc...
http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...s-of-war0.html



The advise to not transgress limits is given in Surah 2 verse 190
Fight in the cause of God those who fight you
But do not transgress limits
For God does not love the transgressors.

This stance (of self defense) is clarified in Surah 22 verse 39
To those against whom war is made, permission is given to fight because they have been wronged---and certainly God is most powerful for their aid.

This concept is further elaborated in the Quran in Surah 60 verses 7, 8, 9.

7. It may be that God will establish friendship between you and those whom you hold as enemies for God is most powerful and God is most forgiving and merciful.
8. God forbids you not from those who fight you not for your faith or drive you from your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just
9. God only forbids you with regards to those who fight you and drive you out of your homes, and support others in driving you out of your homes, from turning to them. It is such as turn to them that do wrong.

The Quran does not advise a half-hearted participation in war---rather that it must be fought well and with speed so as to come to a conclusion as soon as possible (thus sparing lives) and so that peace may be procured
Surah 8 verse 61.
But if the enemy incline towards peace, you also incline towards peace and trust in God for he is the one that hears and knows all things.

This is not just in the Quran but also displayed in the conduct of Prophet (pbuh)
The Hijra is the start of the Muslim calender and it commemorates the migration of the persecuted Meccan Muslims to the city of Yathrib renamed Medina.
When such a large influx of refugees come in---it is bound to cause tensions, So the Prophet established a system of mentorship in which the Ansar (mentors of Medina) helped the Meccan Muslim refugees (Muhajirun) by hosting them in their homes. This way the two communities became family and learned each others customs and ways of accommodation for each other.
The Prophet then proceeded to establish peace treaties with the surrounding communities to further reduce tensions and promote harmony.
This situation did not please the Meccans who attacked...but after several battles a peace treaty was made between the Meccans and the Prophet (pbuh) ---the treaty of Hudaibiya
Although this peace treaty was broken by the Meccans forcing the Medinans into battle, upon the surrender of the Meccans the battle ended without bloodshed and the Prophet proclaimed an amnesty.

Contrast this with the bloody Western wars of the 20th century!! (...or any other century)

[Scrawly]

Siam, this response will be short and sweet because I'll be away from tweb for a while.

1) The articles you linked to do not substantiate "killing because Jesus commands it". Read the verses inscribed on the weapons and you will learn that this is a case of a religious man engaging in war. This is not a case of a war being waged because his religion obligates and inspires him to engage in war. Indeed, the American military is not mobilized under the auspices and dictates of a certain interpretation of the bible. The American military is not waging war "because Jesus commands and demands it". The same cannot be said of a significant portion of Islam's global population who believe it is their divine prerogative to slay the infidel and/or subject them to Sharia, either peacefully or forcefully.

2) The crusades: A historical artifact. Not a manifestation of a systemic problem within Christendom. From your article: "Ultimately the Crusades achieved little more than demonstrating what a gulf there is between the teachings of Jesus and the actions of his followers." Again, no modern day Christian's read the bible and gather momentum to wage war because Jesus commands it. No modern day Christian's read the bible and has their hatred for unbelievers grow to the point where killing them is desirable and worthy of celebration. No modern day groups formulate and rally around certain deadly and toxic interpretations of the bible. No serious modern day discussions are being held in Christendom to determine whether toxic and deadly interpretations are correct, justifiable, etc. Modern day belief has transcended such. Can the same be said for Islam?

3) Muhammad: Was he an exemplary human being despite being a "man of his times"? This is hotly debated and some of his actions as recorded in the authentic Hadiths are disturbing and not easily explained away. I do not have time to get into this and do not desire to link to a video or article because this topic is beyond the purview of the thread.

Anyway, as always, good discussing matters with you siam.

God bless.

[siam]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zHkAowMKrU

...art....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJbf55VJr2I

song ....(has allahuakbar in it....)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAuxu_9iQ9M


Allahu Alim, in the end, it is God who knows best what our inner motivations are and will be our last Judge.