What Must I Do to be Saved?

[RCNicholas]

Actually, I thought George was a "one horse pony"... the only thing I ever saw him discuss was the holiness of Mary and how we should all say she is Blessed "or else".

That IS a bit odd...Catholics and Orthodox wouldn't generally say that a person's salvation hinges solely on whether they gave enough veneration to Mary.

[wonbyone]

That is exactly what the jailer asked Paul and Silas.
Acts 16:29-31

[Cow Poke]

That IS a bit odd...Catholics and Orthodox wouldn't generally say that a person's salvation hinges solely on whether they gave enough veneration to Mary.

I don't know that George was really saying that, (but it sure seemed that way) I was in a "back and forth" with him for many many posts, and he seemed to back away, but there DEFINITELY was an "or else" in there - I jokingly said, "or else WHAT... you're going to beat me up? I'm going to go to hell?..."

I finally gave up The basic tenant of his argument was something like "all generations will call me blessed", so if you don't call Mary blessed, then you're not a Christian.

[Cow Poke]

That is exactly what the jailer asked Paul and Silas.
Acts 16:29-31

And THAT, my friend, is where I got the title!

[RCNicholas]

I don't know that George was really saying that, (but it sure seemed that way) I was in a "back and forth" with him for many many posts, and he seemed to back away, but there DEFINITELY was an "or else" in there - I jokingly said, "or else WHAT... you're going to beat me up? I'm going to go to hell?..."

I finally gave up The basic tenant of his argument was something like "all generations will call me blessed", so if you don't call Mary blessed, then you're not a Christian.

There's a strain in Eastern Orthodoxy (especially online, for some reason) that is very antagonistic toward anyone who's NOT Eastern Orthodox...even to Catholics, who are basically their closest theological brothers. Then again, there are crazy Catholics (Holy Family Monastery) and crazy Protestants who won't even acknowledge EOs and RCs as Christians. There are extremes of every viewpoint, I guess.

[Obsidian]

I thought bling's answer was pretty good.

The people who say you must believe in the Trinity and all sorts of other doctrines are probably in error. Believing that the historical Christ will give you eternal life is likely sufficient.

[bling]

I thought bling's answer was pretty good.

The people who say you must believe in the Trinity and all sorts of other doctrines are probably in error. Believing that the historical Christ will give you eternal life is likely sufficient.

Thank you for reading it. This tread has really gone off subject,so I quiet checking it.

[canuckaho]

Let's say I'm an 18 year old young man (yeah, THAT's a stretch) with no religious background. The goal is to make sure that, when I die, I go to Heaven. Simple enough?

Some say I need to be baptized in the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues to prove I'm saved.
Some say I need to be baptized in water.
Some say I simply need to pray a "sinner's prayer".
Some say I must join a particular church.
Some say I must ask Jesus into my heart.
OH, almost forgot, some even say I must confess "Mary is Blessed" on pretty much a continual basis.

Forget about all the extras and "should" do stuff...
What MUST I do to know for sure that when I die, I will spend eternity in Heaven.
Some of you will asset that there's no way I can "know for sure" - feel free to say so.

As absolutely simply as you can, (some of us can be pretty wordy) please give your answer and your reason for giving that answer.

I think we must believe that Jesus was raised from the dead and we must accept Jesus into our hearts to be born again. Jesus says himself that one must be born again of the spirit.

[Cow Poke]

I think we must believe that Jesus was raised from the dead and we must accept Jesus into our hearts to be born again. Jesus says himself that one must be born again of the spirit.

Can you prove the "into our heart" part?

[canuckaho]

Can you prove the "into our heart" part?

Well, since I was a child, I was taught to accept Christ into my heart and one of my earliest memories is of accepting Jesus into my heart. Paul talks about this in Ephesians 3:16 - 17 a little. I believe that by accepting Christ into your heart, you become born-again and I am pretty sure Jesus taught that you had to be born again in order to see the kingdom of God.

[Cow Poke]

Well, since I was a child, I was taught to accept Christ into my heart and one of my earliest memories is of accepting Jesus into my heart. Paul talks about this in Ephesians 3:16 - 17 a little. I believe that by accepting Christ into your heart, you become born-again and I am pretty sure Jesus taught that you had to be born again in order to see the kingdom of God.

Yeah, not arguing at all, just looking at the scriptural support for "ask Jesus into my heart"... I was taught the same thing, but i don't word it that way anymore. I usually say something like "make Jesus Lord of your life"... or something like that.

[canuckaho]

Yeah, not arguing at all, just looking at the scriptural support for "ask Jesus into my heart"... I was taught the same thing, but i don't word it that way anymore. I usually say something like "make Jesus Lord of your life"... or something like that.

Yeah, I've been thinking of changing what I say to accepting him into your life also but it seems to me like he abides in my heart. I just get this feeling. I'm not sure how much weight I should put into a feeling however.

[Cow Poke]

Yeah, I've been thinking of changing what I say to accepting him into your life also but it seems to me like he abides in my heart. I just get this feeling. I'm not sure how much weight I should put into a feeling however.

I think we would probably both agree that it's not the words you say, but the intent of your heart, and your "follow through".

[nikolai_42]

Yeah, not arguing at all, just looking at the scriptural support for "ask Jesus into my heart"... I was taught the same thing, but i don't word it that way anymore. I usually say something like "make Jesus Lord of your life"... or something like that.

I've gone through the thread looking for an appropriate place to add a thought....and this one raised a second related point so I gotta jump in here.

1. "Ask Jesus into your heart" is a bit of an extrapolation of scripture, but for a child (at least) I would say it conveys something briefly and clearly enough so that they know what you mean without having to interpret a complex theological statement. It basically tells them that they need Jesus personally to help them with everything - and actually change them from the inside. While not complete, if one has faith as a child, I surmise that that's all they need. BUT....having said THAT...the reality is, I think, a little different. There are two scriptures I can think of that hint at Jesus being in one's heart, but never actually say it. In fact, one speaks of the Holy Spirit being IN us, not Jesus :

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:16-17

However, a breath or two later, He says this :

Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
John 14:18-19

And then another breath or two later :

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
John 14:23

And what did John say about Jesus in his prologue :

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:12

So even John, here, utters the simple gospel about believing on Jesus. He even equates it to "receiving Him". While it doesn't say "accept Jesus into your heart" exactly, the concept seems, to me, to be similar.

2. Which leads me to the original thought I had about believing on Christ. That word "believe" has to be applied in the full sense. We can distill the gospel down to an (over?)simplified "Believe in Jesus" and "Ask Him into your heart" but we need to be certain that the full implications of "believe" are understood. Otherwise, it isn't the gospel we are delivering. I can claim to believe that Jesus existed and even that He was a prophet (as Muslims do) and EVEN that He was the Son of God. But what good is that without true faith? If I'm falling through the air with the ground coming up on me very quickly and I have a backpack and an umbrella in my hand and I only have the dexterity and time to either open and hold the umbrella or pull the cord on the pack, what do I do? If I say I believe that the parachute will work but instead cling to the umbrella, what good is my "faith"? What does that say about my belief? I can certainly claim to believe it, but my trust has been placed, instead, in an umbrella that I can see more immediately. So unless I realize my only hope is in the parachute, that belief is rather shallow (if it exists at all). So when we hear the injunction to "believe", it must be clear what is meant.

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 8:24


EDIT : Having said all that, I don't like using the term "Ask Jesus into your heart" since I think it doesn't do the gospel justice. It may have some truth to it, but I see it as incomplete.

[Cow Poke]

I've gone through the thread looking for an appropriate place to add a thought....and this one raised a second related point so I gotta jump in here.

1. "Ask Jesus into your heart" is a bit of an extrapolation of scripture, but for a child (at least) I would say it conveys something briefly and clearly enough so that they know what you mean without having to interpret a complex theological statement. It basically tells them that they need Jesus personally to help them with everything - and actually change them from the inside. While not complete, if one has faith as a child, I surmise that that's all they need. BUT....having said THAT...the reality is, I think, a little different. There are two scriptures I can think of that hint at Jesus being in one's heart, but never actually say it. In fact, one speaks of the Holy Spirit being IN us, not Jesus :

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:16-17

However, a breath or two later, He says this :

Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
John 14:18-19

And then another breath or two later :

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
John 14:23

And what did John say about Jesus in his prologue :

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:12

So even John, here, utters the simple gospel about believing on Jesus. He even equates it to "receiving Him". While it doesn't say "accept Jesus into your heart" exactly, the concept seems, to me, to be similar.

2. Which leads me to the original thought I had about believing on Christ. That word "believe" has to be applied in the full sense. We can distill the gospel down to an (over?)simplified "Believe in Jesus" and "Ask Him into your heart" but we need to be certain that the full implications of "believe" are understood. Otherwise, it isn't the gospel we are delivering. I can claim to believe that Jesus existed and even that He was a prophet (as Muslims do) and EVEN that He was the Son of God. But what good is that without true faith? If I'm falling through the air with the ground coming up on me very quickly and I have a backpack and an umbrella in my hand and I only have the dexterity and time to either open and hold the umbrella or pull the cord on the pack, what do I do? If I say I believe that the parachute will work but instead cling to the umbrella, what good is my "faith"? What does that say about my belief? I can certainly claim to believe it, but my trust has been placed, instead, in an umbrella that I can see more immediately. So unless I realize my only hope is in the parachute, that belief is rather shallow (if it exists at all). So when we hear the injunction to "believe", it must be clear what is meant.

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 8:24


EDIT : Having said all that, I don't like using the term "Ask Jesus into your heart" since I think it doesn't do the gospel justice. It may have some truth to it, but I see it as incomplete.

Child Evangelism is a whole 'nuther topic, because, I believe you are correct in the concept being simple enough for a child to understand, but MORE than just "saying words".

The "Simple Plan of Salvation", it appears, is a bit complicated.

And, while there is "free" Salvation, it certainly is not "cheap grace".