Harmony between the Bible and the Qur'an

[Bowman]

Hi Walter,

Let’s move on to the most glaring error in your entire book.

You draw the following conclusion from page 3 & 4…

“Since both the Bible and the Qur’an explicitly state that God is: One, the only creator who gave the law to Moses, and is known as Lord, and the only God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, then we can reasonably conclude that the God referred to in the Bible is the same God referred to in the Qur’an.”

This has to be the most superficial conclusion drawn that I have ever witnessed when it comes to knowing the Biblical creator God.

Again, where is your study of the very terms, themselves?

You have fallen into the same trap as most Muslims, and believe that we worship the same God as described in the pages of the Holy Bible. On the surface, and to the uninformed, this may appear to be the case, however, upon careful investigation; nothing could be farther from the truth.

The authors who penned the Koranic text tell us who “allah” really is, and he is definitely not the God of the Bible.

Not even close.

Word etymology is the basic first-premise and first-defense against ignorance – and there is absolutely no link of the Koranic “allah” to that of Yahweh.

In fact, the term “allah” shares the same exact root word as that of pagan Arab idol worshipers.

We must remember that the Koranic god “allah” can never be equated to the true God of the Holy Bible.

You keep thinking that the two are the same.

They are not….and it is pure blaspheme to claim that they are.


Just remember Triple “A”…

Satan, the Devil, the great serpent, the destroyer, the deceiver, the liar…in Hebrew, “Abaddon”….in Greek, “Apollyn”…and, in Arabic, “Allah”.



Tell me Walter….where does the ‘allah’ of the Koran ever swear by himself?

The God of the Holy Bible does, as there is nothing greater to swear by.

The only swearing going on in the Koran is regarding physically created things…another gigantic red flag that the ‘allah’ of the Koran is a false god, an imitation god, Satan himself dressed up to fool the ignorant.

[mackharrell]

I'm gdetting here a bit late, but seems to me your question presupposes some understanding of what the "principal teachings" of each book are. It's pretty obvious to me that you've loaded this question by a definition which excludes (1) the deity of Christ, (2) the exclusivity of Christ, (3) Salvation by faith in Jesus death and resurrection, (4) the crucifixion of Christ as God's offering for sin, etc., etc.

Mack Harrell

[smaneck]

You can't even write an Arabic word, sister.

What? Because I spell the words out rather than typing them in Arabic? Did it ever occur to you that I don't have an Arabic keyboard?

[smaneck]

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Word etymology is the basic first-premise and first-defense against ignorance – and there is absolutely no link of the Koranic “allah” to that of Yahweh.

LOL. It is etymologically linked the second most common word for God in the Bible, namely Elohim. It is also etymologically linked to the word Jesus used for God: eli eli lama sabachthani.

In fact, the term “allah” shares the same exact root word as that of pagan Arab idol worshipers.

Gee, just like the Greek word used for God in the New Testament is the exact words that the Greek idol worshippers. Just like our own word "God" is linked to the word used by our Germanic pagan ancestors. And yes, Elohim and Eli are both linked to the etymologically to the Canaanite word for God.

We must remember that the Koranic god “allah” can never be equated to the true God of the Holy Bible.

You keep thinking that the two are the same.

Maybe because he recognizes that there is only one God. ;-}

[smaneck]

Begin, sister...

Very good. Now if you can actually read what you pasted here you should be able to find the ma in that passage. But let me make it easy for you. You can find it twice in this phrase.

ما قتلوه وما صلبو

[Bowman]

What? Because I spell the words out rather than typing them in Arabic? Did it ever occur to you that I don't have an Arabic keyboard?

And you also visted the Dome of the Rock...

[Hannah]

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Hi Sister,

Why don’t you demonstrate your position with scripture?


You are the one with a position here! I have been warned about christians like you. Sadly enough those who told me so, proved to be right. Anyway, should I need teaching about what and who took part in the chain of events and circumstances that led to the crucifixion of Jesus of Nazareth, I will turn to a mature christian.

That way, we can weigh the evidence and see who was responsible for the murder of Jesus Christ.

Weigh the evidence...???? And how exactly are you going to do that? Show me your authority to weigh evidence to deciding that the Jews have full responsibility for the murder of Jesus?
Anyway, how would a christian like you weigh the fact that Jesus Himself while teaching His disciples that He has to go to Jerusalem and foretells what is going to happen, never mentions the word murder nor Jews. Matt 16:21-28 ; Matt 17: 22-23 ; Matt 20:17-19 ; Matt 26:1-5



I study the Holy Bible and the Koran in the same fashion, sister….and that is with the original languages.

Oooooohhhh I see.... you study the Holy Bible with the original languages!!! Well since Jesus hardly spoke any Greek when He was teaching in His own homeland and addressing Himself to His own people.... you might want to invest some time in studying what Jesus meant instead of staring at Greek lettercombinations.
Moreover, in His teachings, Jesus does not refer to the Letters of Paul, the other Apostles, or Revelation.... He refers to the TeNaCH! Anyway, blessings with the study

to the threadowner who allows me to quickly respond despite the offtopic. I will not derail this thread no more.

[Hannah]

I'm gdetting here a bit late, but seems to me your question presupposes some understanding of what the "principal teachings" of each book are. It's pretty obvious to me that you've loaded this question by a definition which excludes (1) the deity of Christ, (2) the exclusivity of Christ, (3) Salvation by faith in Jesus death and resurrection, (4) the crucifixion of Christ as God's offering for sin, etc., etc.

Mack Harrell

Of course you are right, yet the author of the thread does not wish to harmonize the muslim religion with the christian one. He even does not want to harmonize the teachings of the Qu´ran with the Bible. He is trying to point out that there is reason to study and further look into a statement in the Qu´ran which interpretation could, according to him, be looked upon in a different way. He merely made a start with trying to bring it under the attention. Nobody has to review his religion here. It is a very interesting topic which should not be sabled down based on what has always been thought, said and done. Hopefully, some (more) authorities in the field of Qu´ran teachings can join this discussion.

[mackharrell]

The God who reveals himself in Scripture (the Bible) is triune.
Jesus is the Messiah, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, incarnate.
Jesus was crucified. He died. He was buried. He rose again from the dead three days later.
Our only hope of acceptance with God is by faith (trust) in Jesus death as the completely sufficient sacrifice for sin.

These statements comprise what I would call a fair representation of some of the Bible's fundamental doctrines. Now, by no stretch of the imagination are any of these statements logically consistent with the Qur'an.

Ergo..

Mack

[smaneck]

And you also visted the Dome of the Rock...

Yes, about thirty five years ago, in fact. I would have gone to visit it again last month but a the bus station in Jerusalem was bombed and our tour of the Old City was cancelled. Here is a picture of me on a panel at the Hebrew University the second time I went to Jerusalem:

http://news.bahai.org/story/84

[Bowman]

Show me your authority to weigh evidence to deciding that the Jews have full responsibility for the murder of Jesus?

The authority of scripture, sister…




Jesus addressing the Jews


υμεις εκ του πατρος του διαβολου εστε και τας επιθυμιας του πατρος υμων θελετε ποιειν εκεινος ανθρωποκτονος ην απ αρχης και εν τη αληθεια ουκ εστηκεν οτι ουκ εστιν αληθεια εν αυτω οταν λαλη το ψευδος εκ των ιδιων λαλει οτι ψευστης εστιν και ο πατηρ αυτου
εγω δε οτι την αληθειαν λεγω ου πιστευετε μοι


You are from the Devil as the father, and the lusts of your father you desire to do.That one was a murderer from the beginning, and he has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own, because he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. (John 8.44 – 45)


Here we have Jesus, Himself, proclaiming to the unbelieving Jews, in no uncertain terms, that they are from the Devil.

Jews who do not acknowledge Jesus as The Truth are doing the Devil’s work – they are following the Devil’s desires (epithumias), of which, he has been a murderer of man (anthrōpoktonos) from the very beginning.

Jesus had already rightly labeled Jews as murderers long before they killed Him.









Peter to the Jews


ο θεος αβρααμ και ισαακ και ιακωβ ο θεος των πατερων ημων εδοξασεν τον παιδα αυτου ιησουν ον υμεις μεν παρεδωκατε και ηρνησασθε κατα προσωπον πιλατου κριναντος εκεινου απολυειν υμεις δε τον αγιον και δικαιον ηρνησασθε και ητησασθε ανδρα φονεα χαρισθηναι υμιν τον δε αρχηγον της ζωης απεκτεινατε ον ο θεος ηγειρεν εκ νεκρων ου ημεις μαρτυρες εσμεν


The "God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob," "the God of our fathers," glorified the Son of Him, Jesus, whom you delivered up, and denied Him in the presence of Pilate, that one having decided to set Him free. But you denied the Holy and Just One, and asked for a man, a murderer, to be granted to you. And the Originator of Life you killed, whom God raised up from the dead, of which we are witnesses. (Act 3.13 -15)


Here we have Peter declaring to the Jews that they rejected and killed (apekteinate) Jesus.

Following the example of their father, the Devil, the Jews chose the release of a murderer over that of Jesus Christ (the very originator of Life) – further proving that Jews prefer death over life.









Stephen to the Jewish Counsel


σκληροτραχηλοι και απεριτμητοι καρδιαις και τοις ωσιν υμεις αει τω πνευματι τω αγιω αντιπιπτετε ως οι πατερες υμων και υμεις τινα των προφητων ουκ εδιωξαν οι πατερες υμων και απεκτειναν τους προκαταγγειλαντας περι της ελευσεως του δικαιου ου νυν υμεις προδοται και φονεις εγενεσθε οιτινες ελαβετε τον νομον εις διαταγας αγγελων και ουκ εφυλαξατε

Obstinate and uncircumcised in heart and the ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit as the fathers of you, and you. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? And they killed those who foretold concerning the coming of the Righteous One of whom now you have become betrayers and murderers. Who received the law by ordained messengers and did not keep. (Act 7.51- 3)



Here we have Stephen addressing the Jewish Council, and telling them straight-out, as guided by the Holy Spirit, that their forefathers persecuted and killed (apekteinan) the prophets that foretold of Jesus’ coming.

Now that Jesus has come, the Jews, keeping in lock-step with their forefathers, become murderers (phonies) themselves by killing Jesus, fulfilling Satan’s desires.

Observe that the Jews are bestowed with full credit for murdering Jesus Christ.

Immediately after Stephen delivers his address to the Jewish Council, they prove him correct by murdering him in cold blood. Demonstrating that Jesus was right all along; the Jews are nothing but followers of Satan.

[smaneck]

The God who reveals himself in Scripture (the Bible) is triune.
Jesus is the Messiah, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, incarnate.
Jesus was crucified. He died. He was buried. He rose again from the dead three days later.
Our only hope of acceptance with God is by faith (trust) in Jesus death as the completely sufficient sacrifice for sin.

These statements comprise what I would call a fair representation of some of the Bible's fundamental doctrines. Now, by no stretch of the imagination are any of these statements logically consistent with the Qur'an.

Ergo..

Mack

Frankly, I don't see the Trinity as consistent with the Bible either. The word never appears there, as I am sure you are aware. It is a concept which doesn't arise until towards the end of the second century. Nor do we find the word 'incarnate.' Consistently the NT speaks of Jesus as manifesting God, not incarnating Him.

[smaneck]

The authority of scripture, sister…

You are from the Devil as the father, and the lusts of your father you desire to do.That one was a murderer from the beginning, and he has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own, because he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. (John 8.44 – 45)

Here we have Jesus, Himself, proclaiming to the unbelieving Jews, in no uncertain terms, that they are from the Devil.

That has nothing to do with who crucified Jesus. They are aimed at a specific group of Jews who were attempting to have Jesus stoned to death, not crucified.

Jews who do not acknowledge Jesus as The Truth are doing the Devil’s work – they are following the Devil’s desires (epithumias), of which, he has been a murderer of man (anthrōpoktonos) from the very beginning.

No, it is the Jews who were trying to stone Jesus who were doing the devil's work, not Jews who simply didn't think Jesus was the Messiah.

Jesus had already rightly labeled Jews as murderers long before they killed Him.

Which is precisely why you can't apply this passage to them. You have to read it in its context. It is talking about Jews who were about to stone Him:

8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

(King James Bible, John)

Indeed, if the Jews had indeed killed Jesus He would not have been crucified, He would have been stoned as some Jews attempted to do here and others will later do with Stephen. Whatever John 18:31 says, the truth is that the Jews did have a law to put a man to death for blasphemy. But Jesus was convicted and crucified for treason against the Roman government in claiming to be the Messiah (King) of the Jews, not for blasphemy.

[Bowman]

That has nothing to do with who crucified Jesus. They are aimed at a specific group of Jews who were attempting to have Jesus stoned to death, not crucified.

Wrong.

Any Jew who rejects Jesus is following the Devil.

No, it is the Jews who were trying to stone Jesus who were doing the devil's work, not Jews who simply didn't think Jesus was the Messiah.

Scripture?

Which is precisely why you can't apply this passage to them.

Its already applied to them, Sue.

You have to read it in its context.

Done.

It is talking about Jews who were about to stone Him:

No, it is not.

You cannot possibly have capital letters after your name.

[Bowman]

The God who reveals himself in Scripture (the Bible) is triune.
Jesus is the Messiah, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, incarnate.
Jesus was crucified. He died. He was buried. He rose again from the dead three days later.
Our only hope of acceptance with God is by faith (trust) in Jesus death as the completely sufficient sacrifice for sin.

These statements comprise what I would call a fair representation of some of the Bible's fundamental doctrines. Now, by no stretch of the imagination are any of these statements logically consistent with the Qur'an.

Ergo..

Mack

Actually, they are, Mack...