Harmony between the Bible and the Qur'an

[BrotherSka]

Jesus said to become his follower you must take up your own cross (i.e. be persecuted by the world for the good of the world)... that is not exactly a 'gift'.

there is more to being a good person than taking a handout. we should be doing the handing out, if we believe what Jesus taught us!

it is us who should be giving the gifts. it is not enough to talk in abstract terms about a salvation, we must realize it in the concrete, otherwise it is nothing but talk.

Hi Barnasha:

That is some solid food you are dispensing. Good stuff. The acceptance of Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross is critically important; however, it is only the first of many important steps. The free gift of salvation is analogous to receiving a key to a business. Great. Why not get busy rather than boasting about having a key. Jesus has already warned us about being unproductive.

Regards.

[JAYMZ]

Hi Jaymz:

As I have repeatedly mentioned, there is little harmony between what Islamic leaders teach and what the Bible teaches. The Qur'an does not deny Jesus' death and ressurection.

Regards.

If the Qur'an taught ( or Islam believed ) Jesus crucifixion and resurrection, you would think they would be christians instead of Muslim.
You would think that a risen messiah would trump a " prophet " still dead and buried.

[JAYMZ]

Hi Jaymz:

As I have repeatedly mentioned, there is little harmony between what Islamic leaders teach and what the Bible teaches. The Qur'an does not deny Jesus' death and ressurection.

Regards.

Surah 4:157-158. There is little harmony.

[barnasha]

it's easy to say words that divide us.

it's much harder to say words that unite us.

that's why you can merely cite a verse of the quran and assert discordance and emnity, but it takes me hours of precious time, typing posts on this board, to fight for peace.

even if my goal was not to find peace, when i invested hard work into faithfully interpreting the religious scriptures of muslims or christians, at least you could trust what i had to say about those scriptures.

Apparently all you have to bring to the discussion is fear, fear that the quran is hateful. fear operates on darkness, not knowing. if you use fear as a tool we can never trust your aim.

the correct method to find the way, and to lead others, is to use light, not darkness.

"Can the blind lead the blind?"

[BrotherSka]

"In reply to this post by BrotherSka"

it's easy to say words that divide us. ...

Hi Barnasha:

I note that your post No.79 above states that it is in response to one that I posted.

Please clarify.

Regards.

[BrotherSka]

Surah 4:157-158. There is little harmony.

Hi Jaymz:

Did you read the verses that you referenced? They claim that Jesus was not crucified by the Jews. The Bible and recorded history support this position and describe Jesus as being crucified by the Romans. There is harmony.

Regards.

[bling]

Originally posted by barnasha
Jesus said to become his follower you must take up your own cross (i.e. be persecuted by the world for the good of the world)... that is not exactly a 'gift'.

The gift must be had first. You must put your trust in God/Christ to forgive your sins, than you will Love much. Love (of God and others) is the motivation you need to deny yourself (crucify selfishness (selfishness which is the opposite of Love for others)). A follower of Christ is not above his master (Christ) and Christ was obedient to the cross, so that is where we are headed.
We are not “worthy” to be considered a follower of Christ if we are selfish and try to protect ourselves over serving others, BUT we are not made “WORTHY” by denying self, we just are not worthy if we do not.

Originally posted by barnasha
there is more to being a good person than taking a handout. we should be doing the handing out, if we believe what Jesus taught us!

it is us who should be giving the gifts. it is not enough to talk in abstract terms about a salvation, we must realize it in the concrete, otherwise it is nothing but talk.

We give to others because God gave to us first! “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…” We find in scripture that Godly type Love will compel us to do good stuff (or really to allow God to do good stuff through us).

[bling]

Originally posted by smaneck

According to the Qur'an God is nearer to you than your life-vein.

I am not familiar with that verse and is that meant to be a warning?

Originally posted by smaneck

Conceiving of God in terms of patriarchy doesn't work for everyone. I'm reminded of a poem by Rumi, the great Muslim mystic:

Better to know God as Father is to know God as Mother.
Better than to know God as Mother is to know God as the Friend
Better to know God as Friend is to know God a the Beloved.

Is the greatest attribute of God His Love?
Can we measure the Love of a “being” by the amount that being is willing to sacrifice for the person being Loved?
Can we also say that that the greatest Lover of others would be the most selfless?
Would God’s Love be so great as to override all other attributes of God?
Did God’s Love compel God to create man in the first place?
Would there be any greater way for someone to show their Love for another than by allowing their innocent perfect only child to sacrifice themselves for that person being love yet deserving of the punishment (torture)?

Originally posted by smaneck

It is not an issue of having 'done enough' to deserve God's mercy. According to the Qur'an if God were to deal with any of us according to His Justice He would not leave a single thing moving on the earth. God forgives whoever He wishes, however He wishes.

If you do not “know” you have been forgive for certain than the truism expressed by Christ: “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…” does not apply and yet that is what Christ was teaching us.
Do you work hard for God because he has forgiven you or because you want Him to forgive you?

Originally posted by smaneck

God is frequently referred to as the Friend in Islamic mysticism.

Could you give me references?
God is not a friend of every believer?
Does God hate the sinner or just the sin?

Originally posted by smaneck

Repentance in Arabic as with Hebrew means 'to turn.' One turns away from ones sin and towards God.

There is a story of how a Muslim poetess, Rabi'a came upon another Muslim who was weeping and wailing over his sins saying what a wretched man he was. Rabi'a said, "Yes, you are wretched, because had you truly repented and turned towards God you would see only God and not your own sinfulness."

The difference between Christians and Muslims in this story is the Christians see they are very sinful, but is over come with joy and Love because God for forgiving them those sins, while the Muslim is to turn away from sinning to not feel sorrow for the sins or look back and seek God (like they had not happened?). That is a huge difference!

[barnasha]

If god is a being, where does it exist?

Air and heat are your life vein. Isn't he who created the heavens closer to you than the breath you take from it?

[barnasha]

Apologies for that, I think that's the way theologyweb does it (were you the original poster?)

thanks for bringing it to my attention.

I was responding to JAYMZ, who said:

Surah 4:157-158. There is little harmony.

my response:
it's easy to say words that divide us.

it's much harder to say words that unite us.

that's why you can merely cite a verse of the quran and assert discordance and emnity, but it takes me hours of precious time, typing posts on this board, to fight for peace.

even if my goal was not to find peace, when i invested hard work into faithfully interpreting the religious scriptures of muslims or christians, at least you could trust what i had to say about those scriptures.

Apparently all you have to bring to the discussion is fear, fear that the quran is hateful. fear operates on darkness, not knowing. if you use fear as a tool we can never trust your aim.

the correct method to find the way, and to lead others, is to use light, not darkness.

"Can the blind lead the blind?"

[JAYMZ]

it's easy to say words that divide us.

it's much harder to say words that unite us.

that's why you can merely cite a verse of the quran and assert discordance and emnity, but it takes me hours of precious time, typing posts on this board, to fight for peace.

even if my goal was not to find peace, when i invested hard work into faithfully interpreting the religious scriptures of muslims or christians, at least you could trust what i had to say about those scriptures.

Apparently all you have to bring to the discussion is fear, fear that the quran is hateful. fear operates on darkness, not knowing. if you use fear as a tool we can never trust your aim.

the correct method to find the way, and to lead others, is to use light, not darkness.

"Can the blind lead the blind?"

I never said it was hateful, im just not going to kid myself that Islamic teachings are favorable to christianity.
Its not about fear. Its about the truth. like I said if muslims truly believed that Jesus Christ was the miracle working Son of God; that he was crucified and defeated death and the grave, they would lean more towards serving him and not Muhammad. Thats why I think it is just lip service.

I do not believe Muhammad was a prophet of God, and because of that, im not a muslim.

You talk about darkness, yes Jesus address darkness. John 3:16-21. Do muslims believe this ?

Remember, you cant serve two masters.

[Sparko]

Hi Jaymz:

Did you read the verses that you referenced? They claim that Jesus was not crucified by the Jews. The Bible and recorded history support this position and describe Jesus as being crucified by the Romans. There is harmony.

Regards.

Muslims do not believe Jesus was crucified AT ALL. For a prophet of God to be hung on a cross is too shameful and they don't think God would allow it. They think that God substituted a look-alike for Jesus on the cross.

They also do not think Jesus was resurrected. They think Jesus was taken bodily into heaven and will return one day.


That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them [or it appeared so unto them], and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

[Qur'an 4:157

Muslims also deny the Trinity. Without the Trinity there can be no common ground because we believe in different Gods.

[barnasha]

I never said it was hateful, im just not going to kid myself that Islamic teachings are favorable to christianity.

"Christianity" is a sociopolitical entity. At its core, Islam does not deal with worldly matters, rather spiritual ones. Christianity teaches you should love your brother, and do good, Islam also teaches this. Anything else is really ancillary.

36 "Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?"
37 He said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
38 This is the greatest and first commandment.
39 And a second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

Its not about fear. Its about the truth. like I said if muslims truly believed that Jesus Christ was the miracle working Son of God; that he was crucified and defeated death and the grave, they would lean more towards serving him and not Muhammad. Thats why I think it is just lip service.

merely believing Jesus is a miracle worker and was crucified is just paying lipservice, too.

For example, if you did yet not pick up your own cross and deny yourself, you would not yet be a follower of Jesus.

I do not believe Muhammad was a prophet of God, and because of that, im not a muslim.

You talk about darkness, yes Jesus address darkness. John 3:16-21. Do muslims believe this ?

Remember, you cant serve two masters.

Do you serve the son or the father?

[JAYMZ]

"Christianity" is a sociopolitical entity. At its core, Islam does not deal with worldly matters, rather spiritual ones. Christianity teaches you should love your brother, and do good, Islam also teaches this. Anything else is really ancillary.

36 "Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?"
37 He said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
38 This is the greatest and first commandment.
39 And a second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."



merely believing Jesus is a miracle worker and was crucified is just paying lipservice, too.

For example, if you did yet not pick up your own cross and deny yourself, you would not yet be a follower of Jesus.



Do you serve the son or the father?

I love it when non-christians tell christians what christianity is.

Christianity doesnt deal with spiritual matters ? Jesus life, death, and resurrection doesnt fall into spiritual matters category ? We are CHRISTians.

I try to turn from sin on a daily basis in response to the salvation that I have received. The Holy Spirit helps me in this endeavor. So, I would say for me, it is not lip service.

Islam teaches a WORKS based " salvation." Christians believe we are saved by the grace of God through faith in his Son; Jesus Christ. You can tell if someone has true saving faith by their changed life. Then you can TRULY love your brother.

[smaneck]

If the Qur'an taught ( or Islam believed ) Jesus crucifixion and resurrection, you would think they would be christians instead of Muslim.
You would think that a risen messiah would trump a " prophet " still dead and buried.

Not if you took these words from the Qur'an seriously,

"Say not of those who die in the path of God that they are dead, nay verily they are alive."

Not every religion places the same value on a physical body as Christianity seems to.