Is there any Biblical evidence that proves that Jesus is God?

[Dan Zebiri]

No, Obviously not, RC. The teachings of the Quran are in open conflict with the Bible teachings in many places.

However, it is ironical that this quran claims to be 'more accurate' than the Gospel and the Bible even though it was produced only 700 years AFTER the facts of say, Jesus Christ were already established.

And the quran's account of Jesus Christ is a severely truncated and caricatured version of the real historical Jesus Christ as He is found in the best historcial records available.

It denies His unique Sonship to God, His acts and claims that stake a claim to divine identity, His crucifixion and death on the Cross and other essential, foundational elements of the Christian Gospel.

Historians and real reputable scholars do not use quranic sources to factually study the historical and realistic life of Jesus Christ, because these quranic sources and versions of Jesus Christ appear too late in the historians' reckoning.

They far more prefer the 4 Canonical Gospels in the NT, which are all written before 100 AD / CE., indeed for the Mark Gospel, it was computed to have been completed before 70 CE / AD.

This was when all the eyewitnesses to Jesus Christ's life and teachings were still alive and could overwhelmingly confirm and cross-examine the teachings of Jesus Christ as found in the Gospels.

Dan

So in other words, you're admitting that there is NOT total compatibility in the teachings of the Bible and the Qur'an? Just confirming because in another thread it seemed your entire purpose was to argue the opposite.

[Bro. Ben]

Hi John:

I simly believe what the Bible teaches. The Bible is my reference for Truth. Now on to your evidence. You have offered Colossians 2:9 as evidence that Jesus is God.

For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; (Colossians 2:9)

This statement was described in the previous chapter.

For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross. (Colossians 1:19–20)

It is also clarified in 2 Corinthians.

Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. (2 Corinthians 5:18–20)

Jesus also clarified that the Father was working in Him and through Him.

Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves. (John 14:10–11)

So God was in Christ in order that a specific task should be accomplished, that of reconciling the world to Himself. The assumption made was that if God dwells in or fills someone to accomplish a task, then that person becomes or is God. In seeking to verify this assumption, we note that Jesus prayed that believers would be One with the Father, as Jesus was also One with the Father, in order that specific tasks could be accomplished.

Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. (John 17:11)

“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. (John 17:20–23)

So Jesus prays that all believers may be one with the Father and that the Father may dwell in them, just as He and the Father are one and the Father dwells in Jesus. The original Greek word used for one (hĕis) in Jesus’ statement “I and the Father are one [hĕis]”, is the same word used when Jesus prayed that His disciples may be “one [hĕis] in us”. Since believers are not meant to become gods through becoming one with the Father, then Jesus being one with the Father is not sufficient evidence that Jesus is God.

Regards.

The Government is made of 3 Parts!

Praise God for He is worthy of our praise!

Now unto the ONLY wise God.......

This is my thought on the matter, please point out any flaws or inconsistencies within this note!

The government is made up of 3 equal parts - Judicial, legislative and executive branches. 2 of 3 branches are made up of a group people. 1 group is made up, for the most part, of 1 person the president. Of the 3 branches, the president not only has a title but also has his name often times used for what ever the agenda is. The other two branches collectively perform in-tandem functions so that their names are insignificant because the group itself is at the forefront wielding its appropriate power. The president uses his appropriate power as well, thus making up the "body of government".

God is not made up of 3 components! There are not 3 distinct persons that come together to form a God. Rather God manifests(showed/s) Himself in 3 widely known ways - the Father(role of the Father is creator, the umbrella of His creation, the overseer of His creation), the Son(role of the Son is to be an example for us to follow, perfection embodied in human flesh, to walk amongst His own creation), and Holy Ghost(Holy Spirit)(this role is for re-generating or duplicating, passing the torch so a lit flame - the same flame - is in the hearts of His creation and leading that creation back to their creator!)

God stood back and looked at how He could be the most effective for HIS new concept that He had in HIS mind (called humanity). So the solution was to take on different functions depending on what He had wanted to accomplish at that time.

Jesus is called "the Everlasting Father" so is this different then God the Father? (Isa 9:6) Of course not it's the same. God's name was revealed in Matthew (Mat 1:21 - And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.) "HIS" people is an indicator that Jesus wasn't on a mission for the "Father" but rather, He was on a mission for Himself - being that He is God just showing(manifesting) Himself in yet another way! Praise God!

1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

So what's the hoopla and fuss all about? Can't we just agree to disagree then all of us can go to Heaven the end? Paul says I will not have you ignorant....

When I call upon the name of Jesus, I know that I am calling out to GOD HIMSELF! This helps me focus on the REAL POWER THAT'S in His name! The NAME represents our creator, the same one who sacrificed everything on the cross and the same one that all will bow too.

Again, this is my prayerful thought on the matter. If I'm errant in any way please, shine the light or simply comment for comment's sake

Either way - I pray that God will continue to pour out revelation to all us b/c none of us has arrived yet!

God Bless

[Mansoor_ali]

Jesus was not God in any sense.There is no reality of concept of trinity.Bible clearly says that God is one so there is no existence of trinity in the Bible.

[Rainbow Brite]

Jesus was not God in any sense.There is no reality of concept of trinity.Bible clearly says that God is one so there is no existence of trinity in the Bible.

The Quran speaks against the idea that there are 3 Gods and that Jesus is a biological son of the Father. So when it speaks against Trinity it is talking about how the Mormons believe in 3 Gods and that the Father and Jesus are both made of flesh and related by blood. It's not talking about the Christian Trinity.

Quran 4.171 ...Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son...

While it says right here Jesus is God's Word and a spirit proceeding from the Father, which is how it really is in Trinity:

Quran 4.171 ...Christ Jesus...His Word...a spirit proceeding from Him...

Muslims are just a little mixed up on how to interpret the Quran.

[OneSizeFit]

The Quran speaks against the idea that there are 3 Gods and that Jesus is a biological son of the Father. So when it speaks against Trinity it is talking about how the Mormons believe in 3 Gods and that the Father and Jesus are both made of flesh and related by blood. It's not talking about the Christian Trinity.

Quran 4.171 ...Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son...

While it says right here Jesus is God's Word and a spirit proceeding from the Father, which is how it really is in Trinity:

Quran 4.171 ...Christ Jesus...His Word...a spirit proceeding from Him...

Muslims are just a little mixed up on how to interpret the Quran.

it looks like its basically saying just dont call it a trinity/

this is not historically impossible either, one of my books, i cant remember which has a section on how what eventually became shi'a islam were the remnants of disenfranchised original Christian sects who moved to arabia after the destruction of Jerusalem and lost contact with the west (hence, Paul goes to Arabia after his conversion in one of the accounts).

[JAYMZ]

Jesus was not God in any sense.There is no reality of concept of trinity.Bible clearly says that God is one so there is no existence of trinity in the Bible.

Orthodox christians believe in the trinity because we take in consideration the WHOLE of scripture.
1) We believe scripture shows there is ONLY one God.
2) We believe scripture shows that the Father is God.
3) We believe scripture shows that the Son ( Christ ) is God.
4 ) We believe scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is God.
5 ) We believe that scripture DOESNT contradict itself.

..............so we do the math.

[Mansoor_ali]

The Quran speaks against the idea that there are 3 Gods and that Jesus is a biological son of the Father. So when it speaks against Trinity it is talking about how the Mormons believe in 3 Gods and that the Father and Jesus are both made of flesh and related by blood. It's not talking about the Christian Trinity.

Quran 4.171 ...Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son...

There is no historical evidence for that. we go with the understanding of the early Muslims.In another place of Quran Allah Almighty says Surah 5:73:

They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah...(Abdullah Yusuf Ali)

No Mary, no Jesus, no Holy Spirit, no Hindu trinity (Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva), and no lies! All forms of trinity or any plurality of GOD Almighty are false and lies! Mary, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are nothing but Honored creations from GOD Almighty with specific duties.

While it says right here Jesus is God's Word and a spirit proceeding from the Father, which is how it really is in Trinity:

Quran 4.171 ...Christ Jesus...His Word...a spirit proceeding from Him...

Muslims are just a little mixed up on how to interpret the Quran.

You claim that since Jesus is a word and spirit of Allah then this means he is God, well Islamic scholars already adressed this, I quote you Ibn Kathir:

Surah 4:171 "O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the Son of Mary was a messenger of Allah, and His Word (Kalimatuhu), which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him (Ruhun-Minhu): so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not 'three': desist."

Allah forbids the People of the Scriptures from going to extremes in religion, which is a common trait of theirs, especially among the Christians. The Christians exaggerated over `Isa until they elevated him above the grade that Allah gave him. They elevated him from the rank of prophethood to being a god, whom they worshipped just as they worshipped Allah. They exaggerated even more in the case of those who they claim were his followers, claiming that they were inspired, thus following every word they uttered whether true or false, be it guidance or misguidance, truth or lies. This is why Allah said,



[ÇÊøóÎóÐõæÇú ÃóÍúÈóÜÑóåõãú æóÑõåúÈóÜäóåõãú ÃóÑúÈóÇÈÇð ãøöä Ïõæäö Çááøóåö]

(They took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah.) Imam Ahmad recorded that Ibn `Abbas said that `Umar said that the Messenger of Allah said,



«áóÇ ÊõØúÑõæäöí ßóãóÇ ÃóØúÑóÊö ÇáäøóÕóÇÑóìö ÚöíÓóì ÇÈúäó ãóÑúíóãó. ÝóÅöäøóãóÇ ÃóäóÇ ÚóÈúÏñÝóÞõæáõæÇ: ÚóÈúÏõÇááåö æóÑóÓõæáõå»



(Do not unduly praise me like the Christians exaggerated over `Isa, son of Maryam. Verily, I am only a servant, so say, `Allah's servant and His Messenger.') This is the wording of Al-Bukhari. Imam Ahmad recorded that Anas bin Malik said that a man once said, "O Muhammad! You are our master and the son of our master, our most righteous person and the son of our most righteous person...'' The Messenger of Allah said,



«íóÇ ÃóíøõåóÇ ÇáäøóÇÓõ Úóáóíúßõãú ÈöÞóæúáößõãú¡ æóáóÇ íóÓúÊóåúæöíóäøóßõãõ ÇáÔøóíúØóÇäõ¡ÃóäóÇ ãõÍóãøóÏõ Èúäõ ÚóÈúÏöÇááåö¡ ÚóÈúÏõÇááåö æóÑóÓõæáõåõ¡ æóÇááåö ãóÇ ÃõÍöÈøõ Ãóäú ÊóÑúÝóÚõæäöí ÝóæúÞó ãóäúÒöáóÊöí ÇáøóÊöí ÃóäúÒóáóäöí Çááåõ ÚóÒøó æóÌóá»



(O people! Say what you have to say, but do not allow Shaytan to trick you. I am Muhammad bin `Abdullah, Allah's servant and Messenger. By Allah! I do not like that you elevate me above the rank that Allah has granted me.) Allah's statement,



[æóáÇó ÊóÞõæáõæÇú Úóáóì Çááøóåö ÅöáÇøó ÇáúÍóÞøó]



(nor say of Allah except the truth.) means, do not lie and claim that Allah has a wife or a son, Allah is far holier than what they attribute to Him. Allah is glorified, praised, and honored in His might, grandure and greatness, and there is no deity worthy of worship nor Lord but Him. Allah said;



[ÅöäøóãóÇ ÇáúãóÓöíÍõ ÚöíÓóì ÇÈúäõ ãóÑúíóãó ÑóÓõæáõ Çááøóåö æóßóáöãóÊõåõ ÃóáúÞóÜåóÇ Åöáóì ãóÑúíóãó æóÑõæÍñ ãøöäúåõ]



(Al-Masih `Isa, son of Maryam, was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit from [created by] Him;) `Isa is only one of Allah's servants and one of His creatures. Allah said to him, `Be', and he was, and He sent him as a Messenger. `Isa was a word from Allah that He bestowed on Maryam, meaning He created him with the word `Be' that He sent with Jibril to Maryam. Jibril blew the life of `Isa into Maryam by Allah's leave, and `Isa came to existence as a result. This incident was in place of the normal conception between man and woman that results in children. This is why `Isa was a word and a Ruh (spirit) created by Allah, as he had no father to conceive him. Rather, he came to existence through the word that Allah uttered, `Be,' and he was, through the life that Allah sent with Jibril. Allah said,



[ãøóÇ ÇáúãóÓöíÍõ ÇÈúäõ ãóÑúíóãó ÅöáÇøó ÑóÓõæáñ ÞóÏú ÎóáóÊú ãöä ÞóÈúáöåö ÇáÑøõÓõáõ æóÃõãøõåõ ÕöÏøöíÞóÉñ ßóÇäóÇ íóÃúßõáÇóäö ÇáØøóÚóÇãó]

[ãøóÇ ÇáúãóÓöíÍõ ÇÈúäõ ãóÑúíóãó ÅöáÇøó ÑóÓõæáñ ÞóÏú ÎóáóÊú ãöä ÞóÈúáöåö ÇáÑøõÓõáõ æóÃõãøõåõ ÕöÏøöíÞóÉñ ßóÇäóÇ íóÃúßõáÇóäö ÇáØøóÚóÇãó]



(Al-Masih [`Isa], son of Maryam, was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother [Maryam] was a Siddiqah. They both ate food.) And Allah said,



[Åöäøó ãóËóáó ÚöíÓóì ÚöäÏó Çááøóåö ßóãóËóáö ÁóÇÏóãó ÎóáóÞóåõ ãöä ÊõÑóÇÈò Ëõãøó ÞóÇáó áóåõ ßõä Ýóíóßõæäõ ]



(Verily, the likeness of `Isa before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be! Ü and he was.)



[æóÇáøóÊöì ÃóÍúÕóäóÊú ÝóÑúÌóåóÇ ÝóäóÝóÎúäóÇ ÝöíåóÇ ãöä ÑøõæÍöäóÇ æóÌóÚóáúäóÜåóÇ æóÇÈúäóåó ÁóÇíóÉð áøöáúÚóÜáóãöíäó ]



(And she who guarded her chastity, We breathed into her (garment) and We made her and her son [`Isa] a sign for all that exits.) (21:91)



[æóãóÑúíóãó ÇÈúäóÉó ÚöãúÑóÇäó ÇáøóÊöì ÃóÍúÕóäóÊú ÝóÑúÌóåóÇ]



(And Maryam, the daughter of `Imran who guarded her chastity,) and Allah said concerning the Messiah,



[Åöäú åõæó ÅöáÇøó ÚóÈúÏñ ÃóäúÚóãúäóÇ Úóáóíúåö]



(He [`Isa] was not more than a servant. We granted Our favor to him.)







The Meaning of "His Word and a spirit from Him



`Abdur-Razzaq narrated that Ma`mar said that Qatadah said that the Ayah,



[æóßóáöãóÊõåõ ÃóáúÞóÜåóÇ Åöáóì ãóÑúíóãó æóÑõæÍñ ãøöäúåõ]



(And His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit from [created by] Him;) means, He said,



[ßõäøó]



(Be) and he was. Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ahmad bin Sinan Al-Wasiti said that he heard Shadh bin Yahya saying about Allah's statement,



[æóßóáöãóÊõåõ ÃóáúÞóÜåóÇ Åöáóì ãóÑúíóãó æóÑõæÍñ ãøöäúåõ]



(and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit from [created by] Him;) "`Isa was not the word. Rather, `Isa came to existence because of the word.'' Al-



Bukhari recorded that `Ubadah bin As-Samit said that the Prophet said,



«ãóäú ÔóåöÏó Ãóäú áóÇ Åöáåó ÅöáøóÇ Çááåõ¡ æóÍúÏóåõ áóÇ ÔóÑöíßó áóåõ¡ æóÃóäøó ãõÍóãøóÏðÇ ÚóÈúÏõåõ æóÑóÓõæáõåõ¡ æóÃóäøó ÚöíÓóì ÚóÈúÏõÇááåö æóÑóÓõæáõåõ æóßóáöãóÊõåõ ÃóáúÞóÇåóÇ Åöáì ãóÑúíóãó æóÑõæÍñ ãöäúåõ¡ æóÃóäøó ÇáúÌóäøóÉó ÍóÞøñ¡ æóÇáäøóÇÑó ÍóÞøñ¡ ÃóÏúÎóáóåõ Çááåõ ÇáúÌóäøóÉó Úóáóì ãóÇ ßóÇäó ãöäó ÇáúÚóãóá»



(If anyone testifies that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah Alone Who has no partners, and that Muhammad is His servant and Messenger, and that `Isa is Allah's servant and Messenger and His Word which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit created by Him, and that Paradise is true and Hell is true, then Allah will admit him into Paradise with the deeds which he performed.) In another narration, the Prophet said,



«ãöäú ÃóÈúæóÇÈö ÇáúÌóäøóÉö ÇáËøóãóÇäöíøóÉö íóÏúÎõáõ ãöäú ÃóíøöåóÇ ÔóÇÁ»



(...through any of the eight doors of Paradise he wishes.) Muslim also recorded it. Therefore, `Ruh from Allah', in the Ayah and the Hadith is similar to Allah's statement,



[æóÓóÎøóÑó áóßõãú ãøóÇ Ýöì ÇáÓøóãóÜæóÊö æóãóÇ Ýöì ÇáÇøñÑúÖö ÌóãöíÚÇð ãøöäúåõ]



(And has subjected to you all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth; it is all from Him.) meaning, from His creation. `from Him' does not mean that it is a part of Him, as the Christians claim, may Allah's continued curses be upon them. Saying that something is from Allah, such as the spirit of Allah, the she-camel of Allah or the House of Allah, is meant to honor such items. Allah said,



[åóÜÐöåö äóÇÞóÉõ Çááøóåö]

(This is the she-camel of Allah...) and,



[æóØóåøöÑú ÈóíúÊöìó áöáØøóÂÆöÝöíäó]



(and sanctify My House for those who circumambulate it.) An authentic Hadith states,



«ÝóÃóÏúÎõáõ Úóáóì ÑóÈøöí Ýöí ÏóÇÑöå»



(I will enter on my Lord in His Home) All these examples are meant to honor such items when they are attributed to Allah in this manner. Allah said,



[ÝóÜóÇãöäõæÇú ÈöÇááøóåö æóÑóÓõæáöåö]



(so believe in Allah and His Messengers.) believe that Allah is One and Alone and that He does not have a son or wife. Know and be certain that `Isa is the servant and Messenger of Allah. Allah said after that,



[æóáÇó ÊóÞõæáõæÇú ËóáóÜËóÉñ]



(Say not: "Three!") do not elevate `Isa and his mother to be gods with Allah. Allah is far holier than what they attribute to Him. In Surat Al-Ma'idah (chapter 5), Allah said,



[áøóÞóÏú ßóÝóÑó ÇáøóÐöíäó ÞóÇáõæÇú Åöäøó Çááøóåó ËóÜáöËõ ËóáóÜËóÉò æóãóÇ ãöäú ÅöáóÜåò ÅöáÇøó ÅöáóÜåñ æóÍöÏñ]



(Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allah is the third of the three.'' But there is none who has the right to be worshipped but One God.) Allah said by the end of the same Surah,



[æóÅöÐú ÞóÇáó Çááøóåõ íÚöíÓóì ÇÈúäó ãóÑúíóãó ÃóÁóäÊó ÞõáÊó áöáäøóÇÓö ÇÊøóÎöÐõæäöì]



(And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O `Isa, son of Maryam! Did you say unto men: `Worship me''') and in its beginning,



[áøóÞóÏú ßóÝóÑó ÇáøóÐöíäó ÞóÂáõæÇú Åöäøó Çááøóåó åõæó ÇáúãóÓöíÍõ ÇÈúäõ ãóÑúíóãó]



(Surely, in disbelief are they who say that Allah is the Messiah, son of Maryam.) The Christians, may Allah curse them, have no limit to their disbelief because of their ignorance, so their deviant statements and their misguidance grows. Some of them believe that `Isa is Allah, some believe that he is one in a trinity and some believe that he is the son of Allah. Their beliefs and creeds are numerous and contradict each other, prompting some people to say that if ten Christians meet, they would end up with eleven sects!

So Jesus is not God according to Islam,this is a christian myth.

[Mansoor_ali]

Orthodox christians believe in the trinity because we take in consideration the WHOLE of scripture.
1) We believe scripture shows there is ONLY one God.

Yes i agree there is only 1 God because Bible says it.

2) We believe scripture shows that the Father is God.[/QUOTE]

No problem with it.

3) We believe scripture shows that the Son ( Christ ) is God.[/QUOTE]

Does say it.

4 ) We believe scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is God.
5 ) We believe that scripture DOESNT contradict itself.

..............so we do the math.[/QUOTE]

Can you bring me the verse where Jesus said God is three in One?

John 17:3 refutes the concept of trinity.I will quote it later on how it disprove the concept of trinity.

[Mansoor_ali]

Topic:John 17:3 disprove trinity.

Concept of trinity is:

-The Father is truly God.
-The Son is truly God.
-The Holy Spirit is truly God.
-These are not three Gods, but three different persons who share the essence of that one being who is God.

Does it make any sense?How can you say that 1+1+1=1?

This is illogical if i say:

-Sham is a human being.
-Michael is a human being.
-David is a human being.
-These are not three human beings, but three different persons who share ONE essence, which is human.

Ofcourse no one says that one essence "human" is being shared by seven billion people on Earth today. Rather, we say that there are seven billion human beings on Earth today.

Similarly, we can't say that there are three different persons sharing the one essence of God, but that there are three different Gods in light of what the Trinity teaches.

Now this argument probably won't convince Christians, since they would probably go on and reply back saying "Our logic is too limited to grasp the paradox of the Trinity".

Let us take another look

According to Christians:

-The Father is truly God.
-The Son is truly God.
-The Holy Spirit is truly God.

There is nothing irrational about the above statement (if we were to assume that it teaches three different Gods). Similarly, the following statement is also logical:

-Sham is a human being.
-Michael is a human being.
-David is a human being.

However, an irrational statement would be:


-Sham is the only human being.
-Michael is the only human being.
-David is the only human being.

Now this is definitely irrational. How is it possible for Sham and Michael at the same time to be the only human being? Anyone could clearly see that these two beliefs are mutually exclusive and it cannot logically be possible for both of them to be true at the same time.

What does the Bible say about God the Father (first person in the Trinitarian God head)?

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Notice how the Father is being referred to as THE ONLY TRUE GOD. Thus, we are required to restate the formulation of the Trinity as follows:

-The Father is the only true God.
-The Son is truly God.
-The Holy Spirit is truly God.

How is it possible for the Father to be the ONLY true God, while at the same time the Son and Holy Spirit are God as well?If the Son and Holy Spirit are God as well, then it is false to say that the Father is the ONLY true God.Similarly, if we say that the Father is the ONLY true God then we can't say that anyone else (i.e. Son and Holy Spirit) is God as well.

It would also be ludicrous for someone to reformulate the Trinity as follows:

-The Father is the only true God.
-The Son is the only true God.
-The Holy Spirit is the only true God.

Since it would be necessary for atleast two of the above three statements to be false. It is not possible for any one of the persons (Father, Son or Holy Spirit) to be the ONLY true God at the same time when the other two are God as well.

Thus, in light of John 17:3 we see that the concept of Trinity is logically incoherent.

[JAYMZ]

John 17:3 refutes the concept of trinity.I will quote it later on how it disprove the concept of trinity.

And according to christianity how can you know the one true God ? You cannot know the Father unless you know the Son ( John 14:6-7, John 12:44-46, John 5:22-23 ).

So who is the Son ?

[JAYMZ]

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

keep in mind Jesus was also taking to people who didnt fully understand who was in their presence.
I think if you read between the lines in these verses, Christ is showing his deity.
Mark 1:23-24, the demon was afraid of Jesus, " the Holy One Of God. " Jesus destroying demons ? That sounds like God-like authority to me.
Mark 2:5-12, Jesus shows he has authority to forgive sins by his miracles.
Mark 14:62-64, Jesus is referring to himself as in the context of Daniel 7:13-14 which would be a title of deity.

but thats just the tip of ALL the scripture that points to Christs deity.

[Rainbow Brite]

No Mary, no Jesus, no Holy Spirit

The Quran speaks against TRINITY of FATHER GOD having sex with MARY to produce JESUS as some pagans believed:

Quran 5:116 And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden?

The Quran never speaks against the orthodox Christian Trinity, and in fact confirms it as I said:

Quran 4.171 ...Christ Jesus...His Word...a spirit proceeding from Him...

So you are confused about what the Quran means by a TRINITY. It is only against FATHER, MARY, SON TRINITY.

[R. Hoeppner]

Do the math? Yes, do the math - 1x1x1=1.

[R. Hoeppner]

Thus, in light of John 17:3 we see that the concept of Trinity is logically incoherent.

Do you really think you can understand God, who has no beginning or end, through human logic when in human experience everything has a beginning and an end?

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:14

God transcends human logic.

[OneSizeFit]

Ugh math....but if we really got to go there.

The Fibonacci series is formed by adding the latest two numbers to get the next one, starting from 0 and 1:

0 1 --the series starts like this.
0+1=1 so the series is now
0 1 1
1+1=2 so the series continues...
0 1 1 2 and the next term is
1+2=3 so we now have
0 1 1 2 3 and it continues as follows ...


This is the basis of the golden mean ratio, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio

Trinity = Golden Mean Ratio