Is there any Biblical evidence that proves that Jesus is God? - Page 15

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    1. #211
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      Re: Is there any Biblical evidence that proves that Jesus is

      Quote Originally posted by reece1984 View Post
      He requires a verse in the Bible where Jesus says "I am the Almighty God Jehovah, the second person of the Trinity, God in the flesh, I know all things, and I created all things, and all men should worship me, for the Father, myself, and the Holy Spirit are three persons in one God." But I suppose if Jesus said that he would say (1) its a scibal error, and interpolation; (2) that gospel in which it is found isn't authentic, (3) Jesus was just speaking on God's behanlf; God was speaking through Jesus, or (4) it was symbolic...Of course he wouldn't offer any evidence for this position. And if God were to come down from heaven visibly with a loud thunderous voice, pick him up and shake him and say "I am Jesus, I am God Almighty," he would say, "boy, what a weird dream I had." Then when we told him that we all saw it, it was broadcasted live on CNN, BBC, and FOX, he would say "mass halucination! happens all the time!" Some people are jsut stubborn! He always ignores the evidence, and makes claims he can't support. I bet you he won't reply to the fact that Jesu was worshipped, he'll just focus on his humanity and ignore proof of his diety AGAIN!
      Very well said, brother!

    2. #212
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      Re: Is there any Biblical evidence that proves that Jesus is

      even a mere mention of trinity would do, even that is not there.

      'worship' does not mean 'worship as a God' in the christian/hebrew bibles, one need only look to the term translated as 'worship' in the greek bible to know this.

      an example of such a term is found in Matthew 18:26 - does it mean the slave worships the king as a god? no
      “And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you.
      For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened.
      (Luke 11:9-10)

    3. #213
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      Re: Is there any Biblical evidence that proves that Jesus is

      True, προσκυνεω means to bend ones back to towards something in reverence. It doesn't mean worship or service as translated into english. If they mistranslate that, what else are they misrendering "for your benefit"?

    4. #214
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      Re: Is there any Biblical evidence that proves that Jesus is

      Quote Originally posted by reece1984 View Post
      barnasha;
      here is irrefutable proof that Jesus is definitely and beyong reasonable doubt; God!

      Jehovah knows “all things.” (1 John 3:20; Psalm 147:5) Jesus knows “all things.” (John 16:30)

      Jehovah is the only one who knows the hearts of all men. (1 Kings 8:39; Jeremiah 17:9-10) Jesus knows the hearts of all men. (John 2:24-25; Rev. 2:18, 23)

      Jesus is directly called God at John 1:1-3; Hebrew 1:8-10 and John 20:28.

      Thomas called Jesus "my God" at John 20:28. What does "my God" mean? The Greek text says "ho kurious mou kai ho theos mou," literally, "the Lord of me and the God of me," so Jesus was "the God of Thomas!" Jesus blesses him for his profession of faith. Obviously, Jesus agreed with him. If Jesus isn't God, then Thomas was blaspheming, breaking the first commandment, and Jesus would have rebuked him.
      All of which has no verb, isn't in the greek vocative, has a και separating two different things, and isn't even an addressing somebody because it is the subjective greek case nominative. This "!" should be this "...".

    5. #215
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      Re: Is there any Biblical evidence that proves that Jesus is

      Quote Originally posted by OmniSkeptical View Post
      All of which has no verb, isn't in the greek vocative, has a και separating two different things, and isn't even an addressing somebody because it is the subjective greek case nominative. This "!" should be this "...".

      Show us, brother...

    6. #216
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      Re: Is there any Biblical evidence that proves that Jesus is

      6For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father [of Eternity], Prince of Peace.(A)
      --------------------------------
      1. Isaiah 9:6 : Isa 25:1; 40:9-11; Matt 28:18; Luke 2:11

    7. #217
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      Re: Is there any Biblical evidence that proves that Jesus is

      Quote Originally posted by barnasha View Post
      even a mere mention of trinity would do, even that is not there.

      'worship' does not mean 'worship as a God' in the christian/hebrew bibles, one need only look to the term translated as 'worship' in the greek bible to know this.

      an example of such a term is found in Matthew 18:26 - does it mean the slave worships the king as a god? no
      Hebrews 1:6, worship him (Jesus). If ALL the angels worship him, he obviously isn't one of the angels, so then, what is he? Verse 8 and 10 tell us what he is WORSHIPPED AS, God, man, or angel? Let's see: Greek: "Ho (the) thronos (throne) dou (of) de (you) ho Theos (the God) eis (into) ton (the) aoina (age) tou (of the) aionos (age)," Jesus is called "you THE God" in the Greek text, the original text. According to this verse (8) these words are addressed to the Son (Jesus), so he is THE God. Then, in verse 10 it say of him that "You at the beginning O Lord, laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands."

      How's that for worhsipped as God? Both Jesus and the Father are worshipped in Revelation 5:11-14

    8. #218
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      Re: Is there any Biblical evidence that proves that Jesus is

      Quote Originally posted by OmniSkeptical View Post
      All of which has no verb, isn't in the greek vocative, has a και separating two different things, and isn't even an addressing somebody because it is the subjective greek case nominative. This "!" should be this "...".
      So what does panta mean at John 16:30 and 1 John 3:20? Tell us, Mr. Greek Scholar, if you do know! All your gibberish about no verb, vocatives, etc; del with this one example! Do you believe that Jesus is omniscient? That he does know all things? If not, how do you deal with John 16:30 which uses the same panta (all things) as it does for THE God at 1 John 3:20? Hmmm....Seems to me, not even your Greek will get you out of this one! Jesus knows what only God knows, "all things."

    9. #219
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      Re: Is there any Biblical evidence that proves that Jesus is

      Quote Originally posted by reece1984 View Post
      So what does panta mean at John 16:30 and 1 John 3:20? Tell us, Mr. Greek Scholar, if you do know! All your gibberish about no verb, vocatives, etc; del with this one example! Do you believe that Jesus is omniscient? That he does know all things? If not, how do you deal with John 16:30 which uses the same panta (all things) as it does for THE God at 1 John 3:20? Hmmm....Seems to me, not even your Greek will get you out of this one! Jesus knows what only God knows, "all things."
      John 16:30 obviously doesn't refer to everything that is, and παντα is the inflection of παν with the weaker gender. In fact, the verse says he understands everything that he sees not that he know everything. Another convenient mistranslation? Yep, looks like it. The use of παν is to insure that the speaker can generalize. "You see all of it" would be a nice of rendering that verse, and it would be correct.

      Same with verse 1 John 3:20, "that if our heart accuses us, we know that God is greater than our heart and knows all of it." The greek word παν always requires a context.

    10. #220
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      Re: Is there any Biblical evidence that proves that Jesus is

      Quote Originally posted by reece1984 View Post
      Hebrews 1:6, worship him (Jesus). If ALL the angels worship him, he obviously isn't one of the angels, so then, what is he? Verse 8 and 10 tell us what he is WORSHIPPED AS, God, man, or angel? Let's see: Greek: "Ho (the) thronos (throne) dou (of) de (you) ho Theos (the God) eis (into) ton (the) aoina (age) tou (of the) aionos (age)," Jesus is called "you THE God" in the Greek text, the original text. According to this verse (8) these words are addressed to the Son (Jesus), so he is THE God. Then, in verse 10 it say of him that "You at the beginning O Lord, laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands."

      How's that for worhsipped as God? Both Jesus and the Father are worshipped in Revelation 5:11-14
      God is the throne. Thus the throne of God and the Lamb can both be worshipped. Your understanding of Greek is amazingly bad, because it is obvious Hebrews 1:8 doesn't call the son God.

      ο G3588 T-NSM θρονος G2362 N-NSM σου G4771 P-2GS ο G3588 T-NSM θεος G2316 N-NSM <-- Notice thronos and theos are the same case. The throne is obviously the God.
      Last edited by OmniSkeptical; January 25th 2011 at 10:52 AM. Reason: grammar

    11. #221
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      Re: Is there any Biblical evidence that proves that Jesus is

      Quote Originally posted by Bowman View Post
      Show us, brother...
      και2532 CONJ ειπενG3004 V-2AAI-3S αυτωG846 P-DSM οG3588 T-NSM κυριοςG2962 N-NSM μουG1473 P-1GS καιG2532 CONJ οG3588 T-NSM θεοςG2316 N-NSM μουG1473 P-1GS

      And he speaks to him (αυτω), The lord of mine, and The God of mine... with both kurios and theos in their nominative singular masculine case inflections. Notice how με is doubled and in the genitive case. A single με would be necessary to make them one object beyond the και.

    12. #222
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      Re: Is there any Biblical evidence that proves that Jesus is

      Quote Originally posted by OmniSkeptical View Post
      και2532 CONJ ειπενG3004 V-2AAI-3S αυτωG846 P-DSM οG3588 T-NSM κυριοςG2962 N-NSM μουG1473 P-1GS καιG2532 CONJ οG3588 T-NSM θεοςG2316 N-NSM μουG1473 P-1GS

      And he speaks to him (αυτω), The lord of mine, and The God of mine... with both kurios and theos in their nominative singular masculine case inflections. Notice how με is doubled and in the genitive case. A single με would be necessary to make them one object beyond the και.


      Your understanding of Greek is absolutely abysmal and is wanting at all possible levels, brother.

      Had you even bothered to study Greek grammar, then you would have known the following…


      “Although most witnesses have ο κυριος μου και ο θεος μου, codex Bezae reads ο κυριος μου και θεος μου, thus dropping the second article. The TSKTS construction is already an affirmation of the deity of Christ on the lips of Thomas, as most exegetes recognize. However, with the omission of the second article, the construction becomes even more explicit, leaving no wiggle room for doubt.”

      Ref:
      Granville Sharp’s Canon and its Kin; Semantics and Significance
      2009 Daniel B. Wallace
      p. 238


      “For the construction then becomes a TSKS that fits the contours of Sharp’s rule. The first article then modifies both nouns, uniting them and drawing attention to κυριος and θεος as referring to one person, Jesus Christ. This would be a clear instance of a TSKS fitting Sharp’s cannon – indeed, one that has fewer objections to it than the instances in Titus 2:13 or 2 Pet. 1:1.

      “In sum, the varians lectio in John 20:28 does not change the description of Christ in any sense; rather, it only makes slightly more explicit what the TSKTS in this context already affirms: that Christ is he called θεος.”

      Ref:
      Granville Sharp’s Canon and its Kin; Semantics and Significance
      2009 Daniel B. Wallace
      pp. 240 - 241

      Please put forth some effort…

    13. #223
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      Re: Is there any Biblical evidence that proves that Jesus is

      Quote Originally posted by OmniSkeptical View Post
      John 16:30 obviously doesn't refer to everything that is, and παντα is the inflection of παν with the weaker gender. In fact, the verse says he understands everything that he sees not that he know everything. Another convenient mistranslation? Yep, looks like it. The use of παν is to insure that the speaker can generalize. "You see all of it" would be a nice of rendering that verse, and it would be correct.

      Same with verse 1 John 3:20, "that if our heart accuses us, we know that God is greater than our heart and knows all of it." The greek word παν always requires a context.
      I've consulted many Bible translations on this, none of which translate it "you see all of it." I will take their word over yours. What are your qualifications in Greek?

      New International Version (©1984)
      Now we can see that you know all things and that you do not even need to have anyone ask you questions. This makes us believe that you came from God."

      New Living Translation (©2007)
      Now we understand that you know everything, and there's no need to question you. From this we believe that you came from God."

      English Standard Version (©2001)
      Now we know that you know all things and do not need anyone to question you; this is why we believe that you came from God.”

      New American Standard Bible (©1995)
      "Now we know that You know all things, and have no need for anyone to question You; by this we believe that You came from God."

      International Standard Version (©2008)
      Now we know that you know everything and do not need to have anyone ask you any questions. Because of this, we believe that you have come from God."

      GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
      Now we know that you know everything. You don't need to wait for questions to be asked. Because of this, we believe that you have come from God."

      King James Bible
      Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

      American King James Version
      Now are we sure that you know all things, and need not that any man should ask you: by this we believe that you came forth from God.

      American Standard Version
      Now know we that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

      Bible in Basic English
      Now we are certain that you have knowledge of all things and have no need for anyone to put questions to you: through this we have faith that you came from God.

      Douay-Rheims Bible
      Now we know that thou knowest all things, and thou needest not that any man should ask thee. By this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

      Darby Bible Translation
      Now we know that thou knowest all things, and hast not need that any one should demand of thee. By this we believe that thou art come from God.

      English Revised Version
      Now know we that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

      Webster's Bible Translation
      Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest from God.

      Weymouth New Testament
      Now we know that you have all knowledge, and do not need to be pressed with questions. Through this we believe that you came from God."

      World English Bible
      Now we know that you know all things, and don't need for anyone to question you. By this we believe that you came forth from God."

      Young's Literal Translation
      now we have known that thou hast known all things, and hast no need that any one do question thee; in this we believe that from God thou didst come forth.'

      These all believe it should read "know all things" or "everything." Again, which scholar in Greek did you get your information from again?

      You complained about the meaning of panta. But you talk your gibberrish again about form of the verb blah blah. But Revelation 4:11 uses panta, same word letter for letter as used in John 16:30, same form of the verb, and in this context it says that God created all things. Now, are you really going to tell me that panta doesn't mean everything because of some verb form? So what are the exceptions to what God created? Are you the exception? Panta means "all," and Jesus knows "all things." John 16:30. Good try, but not good enough. Go brush up on your Greek!!!

    14. #224
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      Re: Is there any Biblical evidence that proves that Jesus is

      Quote Originally posted by OmniSkeptical View Post
      God is the throne. Thus the throne of God and the Lamb can both be worshipped. Your understanding of Greek is amazingly bad, because it is obvious Hebrews 1:8 doesn't call the son God.

      ο G3588 T-NSM θρονος G2362 N-NSM σου G4771 P-2GS ο G3588 T-NSM θεος G2316 N-NSM <-- Notice thronos and theos are the same case. The throne is obviously the God.
      Accordng to you the throne of God and the Lamb can BOTH be worshipped. Wow! Matthew 4:10 says otherwise. Also, it would be idolatry to worship a throne, it is God alone who must be worshipped. But what can I expect from creature worshippers? Since you claim it is okay to worship the Lamb, then do you pray to him? 1 John 5:11-15 and John 14:13 tells us to pray to him. Do you:?

    15. #225
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      Re: Is there any Biblical evidence that proves that Jesus is

      Quote Originally posted by reece1984 View Post
      Accordng to you the throne of God and the Lamb can BOTH be worshipped. Wow! Matthew 4:10 says otherwise. Also, it would be idolatry to worship a throne, it is God alone who must be worshipped. But what can I expect from creature worshippers? Since you claim it is okay to worship the Lamb, then do you pray to him? 1 John 5:11-15 and John 14:13 tells us to pray to him. Do you:?
      It says no such thing. The throne of God is God himself. Your quoting of the granville sharp rule only proves that your basic greek is appalling. Granville Sharp took rules about the english article and applied them to greek, which is really stupid because greek doesn't have mass nouns, and has few one-count nouns ie names like Jesus and Zeus.

      Bowman, I think you are bluffing with the Granville Sharp Rule.
      Last edited by OmniSkeptical; January 26th 2011 at 09:53 AM.

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