Is there any Biblical evidence that proves that Jesus is God?

[BrotherSka]

Do you believe the Father is God ? Im sure you do, so why cant the Son be God also. The Holy Spirit is Gods presence here on earth so why cant he be God also.

Jesus is not the Father. The Father is not the Holy Spirit. The Son is not the Spirit.


We believe in one what ? One God. That one God has revealed himself to us as three " persons " within that Godhead.

1) one what
2) three whos

Hi Jaymz:

Let me respond to each of your queries.

Do you believe the Father is God ?

Well, it really does not matter what I believe. However, it is important what the Bible explicitly teaches. The messages of the apostles that are recorded in the Biblical Book of Acts repeatedly, consistently, and explicitly show that Jesus and God were two separate and distinct persons.

“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” (Acts 2:36)

Paul wrote to the church in: Rome, Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Philippi, Colossi, and Thessalonica. He also wrote to Timothy, Titus, and Philemon. Letters were also written by the disciples James, Peter, and John. They all repeatedly mention Jesus and God, and consistently and explicitly describe them as separate persons.

Paul consistently identifies the One God as the Father.

There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. (Ephesians 4:4–6)

yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:6)

Every one of Paul’s recorded letters open with a greeting: in the name of God the Father, and the Lord Jesus. This seems to indicate that Paul wanted his readers to understand that God is the Father, and Jesus is the Lord. Paul also repeatedly and explicitly identified the Father as the God of Jesus.

Now may the God of patience and comfort grant you to be like-minded toward one another, according to Christ Jesus, that you may with one mind and one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 15:5–6)

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, (2 Corinthians 1:3)

The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying. (2 Corinthians 11:31)

that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him (Ephesians 1:17)

We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, (Colossians 1:3)

Im sure you do, so why cant the Son be God also.

Jaymz, Jesus may well be God. However, there is insufficient evidence in the Bible, for us to make doctrine that He is. Further, there is too much explicit conflicting evidence to show that Jesus is not God. Actually, hear Jesus Himself. Jesus provided some explicit evidence about His relationship with God.

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?” (Matthew 27:46)

Jesus identified His disciples as His brethren after His death, and identified their common Father as God.

Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’” (John 20:17)

When Jesus prayed to His Father, He identified Him as the only true God, and Himself as separate from God.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. (John 17:3)

We believe in one what ? One God. That one God has revealed himself to us as three " persons " within that Godhead.

Jaymz. We normally believe what we hear first. Any other information must reach a much higher standard if it is to be believed. Therefore, I am very sympathetic to your position. Let me suggest that you identify and try to verify the assumptions that religious leaders used to base their interpretations.

Regards,
Walter

[BrotherSka]

You're spinning this a WHOLE heck of a lot. If Jesus is the Word, and the Word is God, then Jesus is God. Your claim is that the Word "WAS" God at some past time and now no longer is God but is separate from God. This totally contradicts God's immutability and eternality.

Hi Nicholas:

Please provide Biblical evidence for your assertions.

Regards.

[barnasha]

the mere fact that people can confuse the great rabbi with God Almighty shows that they have not grasped his teachings.

"why do you call me good? only God is good" <--- statement of a true worshiper of God

[John Goddard]

Dear John:

Your position appears to be closer to the Biblical position, and would not conflict with the Qur’anic position. However, it is in conflict with the position that Jesus is God. The Bible explicitly and repeatedly describes Jesus and God as two separate entities.

Also, please explain the meaning of the title "Christian Other".
Regards.

Christian (other) means I'm Adoptionist, in that Jesus was born 100% man but gradually after his baptism, God gave Jesus will and powers equal to God's. Such as judgment over all other men.

So it depends on context. Is Jesus the same as God to US now because of powers God has given him? Yes.

Was Jesus always existing as God eternally? No, because Jesus is a man, and men haven't existed forever, only God has.

[John Goddard]

the mere fact that people can confuse the great rabbi with God Almighty shows that they have not grasped his teachings.

"why do you call me good? only God is good" <--- statement of a true worshiper of God

If you do everything God would do, you would also be good.

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

[BrotherSka]

Christian (other) means I'm Adoptionist, in that Jesus was born 100% man but gradually after his baptism, God gave Jesus will and powers equal to God's. Such as judgment over all other men.

So it depends on context. Is Jesus the same as God to US now because of powers God has given him? Yes.

Was Jesus always existing as God eternally? No, because Jesus is a man, and men haven't existed forever, only God has.

Hi John:

I really enjoy an honest discussion. Thank you for the rare opportunity.

You have analysed the Biblical evidence and have come up with your interpretation. That is good. To prevent error from going into the Church, it is necessary to rigorously examine the assumptions upon which you based your interpretations, and to see whether the interpretation has damaged the integrity of any evidence, or did not resolve any conflicting evidence. If the interpretation is valid, then you have simply uncovered another opinion that reasonably explains the evidence.

The problem is if your new opinion conflicts with an established doctrine. If it does, then the doctrine should be scrutinized. If the ‘doctrine’ also reasonably explains the evidence, then we have two opposing opinions. Since doctrines should be based on verses that are not vulnerable to diverse interpretations, then I do not believe that the specific issue should be made into a doctrine.

Now, let us examine your interpretation.

Jesus was born 100% man.

Well, Jesus was unique in that He was born of a virgin and through the power of the Holy Spirit. In some respects, He was like Adam, not having received the Y chromosome from an Earthly Father. However, He could have received his X chromosome from Mary, or perhaps Mary simply acted as an incubator into which Jesus was placed as an embryo, having received both X and Y chromosomes from God the Father, and/or the Holy Spirit.

Now, given the limited available evidence, we can only speculate. All of the above scenarios reasonably explain, without damaging the integrity of the Biblical evidence. Therefore, questions about where Jesus got His chromosomes should never become doctrinal statements, but should remain in the realm of speculation, where individuals are free to believe what they want on this issue. So back to the question. Was Jesus 100% man.

You would need to define man. If a man is defined as having an earthly mother and father, then Jesus was not 100% man.

… but gradually after his baptism, God gave Jesus will and powers equal to God's. Such as judgment over all other men.

Yes, Jesus did receive authority from God. However, Jesus explained that He had glory “before the world was”.

And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. (John 17:5)

What was this glory? Well, again, I can provide multiple speculative scenarios which reasonably explain the evidence. However, in determining that Jesus had powers equal to God’s you would need to define “equal”. Is it equal in both type and magnitude? I do not think so.

God can write. He wrote on tablets of stone and gave them to Moses. Jesus can write. He wrote on the sand as the people were preparing to stone the woman caught in adultery. Both you and I can also write. Are you interpreting this evidence to mean that you and I have powers equal to God?

Best regards.

[themuzicman]

Hi Jaymz

You have offered Rev 4:10 as evidence that Jesus is God.

The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying (Rev 4:10)

Let us examine the assumption on which the interpretation of evidence is based. For over 1,000 years, it was assumed that Jesus was on the throne being worshiped. In attempting to verify this assumption, we note that at this time, God is on the throne.

And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever!” (Rev 5:13)

Therefore, Rev 4:10 is not evidence which supports that Jesus is God.

Regards.

Two issues, here. First, you assume that the one who is on the throne isn't the lamb. This isn't necessarily the case. I can say, "We should thank the opening poster and the person who replied to this thread" meaning that you (one person) should be thanked for both of these items, yet it does not refer to two people.

So, your grammatical argument doesn't hold water.

Michael

[themuzicman]

Hi Jaymz

You have offered Luke 24:52 as evidence that Jesus is God.

And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy: (Lu 24:32)

The unverified assumption is that this is the same type of worship reserved for God alone. In attempting to verify this assumption, we note that the Greek word for worship has a range of meanings, including to: kiss, faun, crouch, prostrate, reverence, and adore. Therefore, we need to examine the context of each usage. Let us examine some evidence.

When satan wanted Jesus to worship him, he prefixed “fall down” to worship so that there would be no doubt as to the intent. Jesus replied that only God should receive this type of worship and did not include Himself as a recipient. If He had, then we would probably not be having this discussion.

We should note that even when the action of falling down is prefixed to worship, it still may not indicate actual worship. Please note Jesus’ parable of the unforgiving servant.

The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. (Matthew 18:26)

I do not believe that Jesus was stating that the servant was worshipping his master as we should worship God. Therefore, we may agree that there are some challenges with making conclusive statements on this issue. Let us continue with some explicit evidence.

In John’s account of Jesus with the woman at the well, Jesus clarified that the Father should be worshipped, and again, did not include Himself as a possible recipient.

After Jesus’ death and resurrection, Jesus’ disciples only talked about worshipping God, not Jesus in their letters.

Therefore, while we have no conclusive evidence that Jesus should be worshipped, we do have explicit evidence that God alone should be worshipped.

Regards.

Invalid whole meaning fallacy. The meaning of a word may be different from one context to another. Just because you can show another meaning elsewhere doesn't change the meaning presently.

In the Luke verse, there is simply no other way to interpret the meaning other than worship that is devoted solely to God. If Jesus wasn't God, he would have to tell them not to worship Him. But He didn't.

Michael

[themuzicman]

Hi Jaymz

You have offered Titus 2:13 as evidence that Jesus is God.

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; (Titus 2:13)

The unverified assumption was that Paul was referring to Jesus as ‘the great God’. However, Paul could have been referring to one or two persons. In attempting to verify this assumption, we note that Paul identified Jesus and God as two separate entities in his introduction.

To Titus, a true son in our common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior. (Titus 1:4)

Further, when Jesus returns, He stated that He will be coming, seated at God’s right had.

Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.” (Matt 26:64)

Therefore, Titus 2:13 is not evidence that Jesus is God.

Regards.

That's just plain bad arguing. There is no question in Christianity that Christ is the one who will return in glory. Being "seated at God's right hand" means that He has the authority of the Father, not a literal seating. (Which would be hard, since God is omnipresent and has no hands.)

Thus, the glorious appearing refers directly to Jesus Christ, who is God.

Michael

[BrotherSka]

Two issues, here. First, you assume that the one who is on the throne isn't the lamb. This isn't necessarily the case. I can say, "We should thank the opening poster and the person who replied to this thread" meaning that you (one person) should be thanked for both of these items, yet it does not refer to two people.

So, your grammatical argument doesn't hold water.

Michael

Dear Michael:

When we have a difference in interpretation, let us simple re-examine the evidence.

In Revelation, it describes Jesus as the Lamb who took the scroll from Him who sat on the throne.

And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.

Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying:

“ You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.” (Rev 5:6-10)

Who was sitting on the throne? Well, let us go to the previous chapter.

The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying:

“ Holy, holy, holy,
Lord God Almighty,
Who was and is and is to come!”

Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever, the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying:
“ You are worthy, O Lord,
To receive glory and honor and power;
For You created all things,
And by Your will they exist and were created.” (Rev 4:8-11)

Therefore, God was on the throne, and Jesus approached the throne. If you disagree, then please resolve this evidence in your reply, rather than simply stating that you disagree. I look forward to an honest discussion.

Regards.

[BrotherSka]

Invalid whole meaning fallacy. The meaning of a word may be different from one context to another. Just because you can show another meaning elsewhere doesn't change the meaning presently.

In the Luke verse, there is simply no other way to interpret the meaning other than worship that is devoted solely to God. If Jesus wasn't God, he would have to tell them not to worship Him. But He didn't.

Michael

Hi Michael:

I provided you with evidence. Your simply stating that “there is simply no other way to interpret the meaning” is not evidence. That was exactly how many opinions became determined as truth in times past. These opinions became established as truth through violence. However, presently, the assumptions upon which interpretations are based can be investigated for verification without the threat of violence.

We should never be afraid to subject claims of truth to rigorous scrutiny, because the Truth will eventually prevail.

Regards.

[themuzicman]

Hi Michael:

I provided you with evidence. Your simply stating that “there is simply no other way to interpret the meaning” is not evidence. That was exactly how many opinions became determined as truth in times past. These opinions became established as truth through violence. However, presently, the assumptions upon which interpretations are based can be investigated for verification without the threat of violence.

We should never be afraid to subject claims of truth to rigorous scrutiny, because the Truth will eventually prevail.

Regards.

Luke

51And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

52And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:

53And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

Notice that Jesus is carried up into heaven. There is simply no way to interpret "worship" in the way that you've implied with the man who begged the king to have mercy on him.

Clearly, worship of Christ here is as to God. There can be no other interpretation from the context. When you give up your agenda, you will see the truth.

[BrotherSka]

Two issues, here. First, you assume that the one who is on the throne isn't the lamb. This isn't necessarily the case. I can say, "We should thank the opening poster and the person who replied to this thread" meaning that you (one person) should be thanked for both of these items, yet it does not refer to two people.

So, your grammatical argument doesn't hold water.

Michael

Oh dear.

Listen Michael. The days of opinions being correct just because someone says so, are long gone. Please provide some evidence for your assertions. If you wish me to provide some more evidence, then I will happily oblige.

The evidence that Jesus is the lamb seated at God’s right hand is abundant and explicit. When Jesus left the Earth, He sat next to God.

So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God. (Mk 16:19)

When Jesus returns, He said that He will return with God.

Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”(Matt 26:64)

After Jesus died, Stephen claimed to have seen Jesus standing next to God.

But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!” (Ac 7:55-56)

Please present any conflicting evidence.

Regards.

[themuzicman]

Oh dear.

Listen Michael. The days of opinions being correct just because someone says so, are long gone. Please provide some evidence for your assertions. If you wish me to provide some more evidence, then I will happily oblige.

The evidence that Jesus is the lamb seated at God’s right hand is abundant and explicit. When Jesus left the Earth, He sat next to God.

So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God. (Mk 16:19)

When Jesus returns, He said that He will return with God.

1) The end of Mark 16 is not considered by most scholars to be part of the original. So, evidence from Mark 16:9 onward is suspect.

2) God has no hands. This is symbolic language referring to God's authority.

Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”(Matt 26:64)

After Jesus died, Stephen claimed to have seen Jesus standing next to God.

But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!” (Ac 7:55-56)

Please present any conflicting evidence.

The problem is in your interpretation. The beliefs of Jews and Christians throughout their history is that God is Spirit, not physical. He is wholly other than creation. He does not have arms. A simple study of Jewish and Christian beliefs are sufficient, here. If you are unable to do this, then you are insufficient to engage in this kind of debate.

Thus, as long as Christ has the authority of the Father, He can be and go where He wants.

So, when you depart from your simpleton ways and your agenda, and think about the nature of God in Scripture and in tradition, you'll come to the correct conclusion.

Michael

[BrotherSka]

Luke

51And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

52And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:

53And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

Notice that Jesus is carried up into heaven. There is simply no way to interpret "worship" in the way that you've implied with the man who begged the king to have mercy on him.

Clearly, worship of Christ here is as to God. There can be no other interpretation from the context. When you give up your agenda, you will see the truth.

Dear Michael:

My agenda is to know and follow the Truth. I will listen to your and others’ opinions, but I have a responsibility to analyse your claims before simply accepting them. A juvenile can offer the excuse that he was misled by his teachers. Adults should not offer a similar excuse; however, given the amount of information we have to process, I suppose it can be a reasonable excuse.

However, a teacher has no excuse. He should critically review the information that he intends to teach lest he be found misleading others. I am sure that you are well aware of the consequences, specified by Jesus, of misleading others. That is why I cannot simply accept your opinions without subjecting them to rigorous scrutiny.

Now, before I investigate your latest claim, let me make sure that I understand you properly. Are you claiming that verse 53 “And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God” refers to Jesus?

Regards.