Receiving the Holy Spirit

[BigBen]

A couple of people and I will be leading a Bible study discussion on prayer. I have delved heavily into the Old Testament in order to show an appreciation for what we have when we pray.
I am trying to show that for all the work that Solomon did to make a House for the Lord, he still humbly recognized that nothing made by human hands was worthy of the Lord's presence. However, as born again believers today, we have God Himself, the Holy Spirit, residing inside of us... something infinite valuable. I came across a verse in the new testament where Jesus says
those who believe in Him *will* receive the Helper, indicating that they hadn't received it yet. However, in Psalms, the Old Testament, Psalm 51:11
Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.
So I remain a little confused on the issue of the Holy Spirit. One of the main points I at least planned on making was that
The point that I at least *planned* on making was going to be that Isaiah 56:5-7 (New International Version)

5 to them I will give within my temple and its walls
a memorial and a name
better than sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
that will not be cut off.

is in reference to the Holy Spirit that Jesus has given us through His death. Basically saying, look at what we have now interceding for us when we pray! However this might be incorrect. Your help is always appreciated.

[Heterodoxus]

I have delved heavily into the Old Testament in order to show an appreciation for what we have when we pray.

Why the OT when the Gospels are replete with Jesus' teachings on how and for what to pray?

I am trying to show that for all the work that Solomon did to make a House for the Lord, he still humbly recognized that nothing made by human hands was worthy of the Lord's presence.

Which has what to do with how and for what to pray? How does this recognition show an appreciation for what we have when we pray?

I came across a verse in the new testament where Jesus says those who believe in Him *will* receive the Helper, indicating that they hadn't received it yet.

You seem to be referring to John 14:26, 15:26, and 16:7. In those verses, "will send" in English is better read dispatch, the inference being that the Holy Spirit might work either subjectively within an individual person, or objectively thru (via) a person or group--if the person or group permits that Spirit to work unimpeded.

As to Psalm 51:11, bear in mind that the words were expressed by a Jewish messiah-king to the tribal-national God of Israel who acted as he (David) thought he should act in the spirit of YHVH-Jehovah (jealousy, vengeance, etc.).

As for Isaiah 56:5-7, you might want to remember that these words refer only to keepers of the Jewish Sabbath. I don't see how those words "show an appreciation for what we have when we pray."

[RBerman]

BigBen, why are you asking a question about Christianity in the General Theistics forum? Seems like a sure way not to get an answer that would help you in a Bible study.

In brief, the Holy Spirit is portrayed as "coming" in more than one way in Scripture. In the OT, it's generally depicted as empowering someone for a specific task for a specific length of time. Thus Saul prophesied at one point, and Samson's strength came and went and came again, etc. In Psalm 51, David is worried that the Holy Spirit, which has been empowering him in his royal office, will leave because of his sin with Bathsheba.

It's not clear how that sort of Holy Spirit work stacks up next to what the NT describes, with a permanently indwelling Holy Spirit whose main purpose is to unite us to Christ. On the one hand, something different is clearly happening in the NT. But on the other hand, I'm reluctant to say that OT saints lived lives of holiness simply under their own human steam, without the constant empowering of the Spirit.

[headheart]

Hi BigBen,

The Old Testament speaks much of the HOLY SPIRIT, but as both H. and RB wrote, there is considerable teaching by Paul the apostle of our Lord Jesus Christ, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords; which you can consider:

Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered [RSV: with sighs too deep for words; NIV: with groans that words cannot express].

Praying.
HH

nb. He the Holy Spirit should not be regarded as an influence, or feeling, or vibration, but in the same what that we think about GOD.

[jo7241974]

A couple of people and I will be leading a Bible study discussion on prayer. I have delved heavily into the Old Testament in order to show an appreciation for what we have when we pray.
I am trying to show that for all the work that Solomon did to make a House for the Lord, he still humbly recognized that nothing made by human hands was worthy of the Lord's presence. However, as born again believers today, we have God Himself, the Holy Spirit, residing inside of us... something infinite valuable. I came across a verse in the new testament where Jesus says
those who believe in Him *will* receive the Helper, indicating that they hadn't received it yet. However, in Psalms, the Old Testament, Psalm 51:11
Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.
So I remain a little confused on the issue of the Holy Spirit. One of the main points I at least planned on making was that
The point that I at least *planned* on making was going to be that Isaiah 56:5-7 (New International Version)

5 to them I will give within my temple and its walls
a memorial and a name
better than sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
that will not be cut off.

is in reference to the Holy Spirit that Jesus has given us through His death. Basically saying, look at what we have now interceding for us when we pray! However this might be incorrect. Your help is always appreciated.

In your world view, it appears that what you would like to teach is this: "When we pray, we should give thanks for something we have today, which the people who were born before the death and resurrection of Jesus did NOT have (which would be the Holy Spirit). "

My comments:

Bringing the Holy Spirit into this, as something we have today and did not in OT times, will most likely create more questions than you have answers. This could easily cause your discussion to stray. If you are set on discussing the Holy Spirit, then present your ideas based on things you DO know for certain about the Holy Spirit.

For instance, by following the "recipe" for prayer, if you will, described by Jesus which we know as the Lord's prayer, can give us daily focus at the start of each day. We can ASK to be in-tune with the guidance and direction of the Holy Spirit. This in turn can help us to be aware of the needs of others, and help us to be instruments in the hands of God to bring comfort to someone in need. I think the part of our prayers wherein we ask for the strength to accept God's will, or to make sure we mention that His will is done, actually invokes the strength and help of the Holy Spirit. For if we are sensitive in learning to feel the presence of the Holy Spirit, and are experienced in heeding the counsel He gives, the greater our increase in understanding. And, the better our relationship with God.

Prayer does not have to be formal. Having a set pattern of prayer, i.e., when you first get up, and before you go to bed can be more indicative of the method of prayer we use (like the format of the Lord's Prayer). However, prayers can be said at anytime, 24/7; either in our minds, spoken out loud in groups when appropriate, and spoken quietly in private.

Pray for direction in your discussion about prayer. The fact that you have already researched this topic indicates your sincerity and focus. You will not be let down. Don't forget that song is a method of prayer as well. Listening to uplifting music and hymns (and singing along, of course!) is an excellent way to stay focused on the kingdom of God. All these things can help you be of this world, but not in it. Prayer is such a wonderful building tool in your relationship with God.

Without going into a lot of detail, I believe Solomon DID have the Holy Spirit as his guide - especially with respect to the Temple which he built for the Lord. The Temple was a real building; and the purpose of the Temple is for special ordinances to be accomplished. It was not to be representative, or a type, for the dwelling of the Holy Spirit in us (although, the Holy Spirit DID indwell Solomon's Temple). IOW, I do not get the same interpretation which you did.

Good luck and God bless,

jo

[headheart]

I agree with this !

Pray for direction in your discussion about prayer.

One is then the sermon, instead of the sermon being something one attatches to oneself.

I remember King Solomon's prayer. It was so beautiful!

Sincerely,
HH