Frank Schaeffer's book "Crazy for God"

[FormerFundy]

Has anyone read Frank Schaeffer's book Crazy for God?

I have just started it. I only became aware of it two nights ago when I saw Frank being interviewed on MSNBC. Frank is the only son of the well known evangelical apologist, Francis Schaeffer. Francis wrote about a number of books defending evangelical Christianity as the only coherent and consistent world view. I read his first book, Escape from Reason as a college freshmen. I was so impressed that I went out and bought his Complete Works in a big 5 volume set.

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Works...3271307&sr=8-3


Now his son Frank has written a book in which he trashes his father and especially his mother. In addition, he trashes many of the religious right leaders--Dobson, Falwell, etc. in the book.

Apparently he still "sort of" believes in God but its not the evangelicalism of his father.


I will be giving some opinions on this book as I read it but my first impression is why air the dirty laundry of your own family? His mother is still alive. I could never do such a thing myself to my own family.

http://www.frankschaeffer.com/

[Kenny]

Much of what he says in his interviews (in the link you provided) about the contemporary religious right is, sadly, imho, right on the money (although some of it is over reaction as well). They are shooting themselves in the foot by coming across as a bunch of extremist nutters (and that’s because a lot of them are a bunch of extremist nutters). It’s sad to me that, in the minds of many people, that’s the crowd they think of when they think of Evangelical Christians.

That said, I also agree with you that he shouldn’t be airing his own family’s dirty laundry.

[FormerFundy]

Much of what he says in his interviews (in the link you provided) about the contemporary religious right is, sadly, imho, right on the money (although some of it is over reaction as well). They are shooting themselves in the foot by coming across as a bunch of extremist nutters (and that’s because a lot of them are a bunch of extremist nutters). It’s sad to me that, in the minds of many people, that’s the crowd they think of when they think of Evangelical Christians.

That said, I also agree with you that he shouldn’t be airing his own family’s dirty laundry.

I agree. I am no fan of the religious right. However, Francis Schaeffer as far as I can remember was not really a part of the religious right. His son definitely was. I think the religous right took Francis Schaeffer's philosophical writings about how abortion would lead to euthanasia in Whatever Happened to the Human Race? and used that in their staunch opposition to abortion. I know Falwell did have Francis on his program once in the late 70's and I think James Kennedy as well.


BTW, even though I am agnostic, I am still opposed to abortion except in defense of the life of the mother. I hold that position on non-religious grounds.

[Philosophickle]

I read the book right when it came out and hand a chance to talk to Schaeffer about the book. I asked him if it was hard to talk about some of the people he had worked with so long in this light, and he indeed came across much humbler than his recent MSNBC interviews. Maybe it's a kind of cable news role he's playing.

[Kenny]

I agree. I am no fan of the religious right.

Me neither. And I am a (relatively) theologically conservative Christian.

However, Francis Schaeffer as far as I can remember was not really a part of the religious right. His son definitely was. I think the religous right took Francis Schaeffer's philosophical writings about how abortion would lead to euthanasia in Whatever Happened to the Human Race? and used that in their staunch opposition to abortion. I know Falwell did have Francis on his program once in the late 70's and I think James Kennedy as well.

Yes. Argument via guilt-by-association is a distressingly common form of argument in ethics, politics and religion (and it comes from all sides). The mere fact that nutters in the religious right used some of Schaeffer’s work to advance their agenda does not license the inference that Schaeffer is partially to blame for the excesses of the religious right.

BTW, even though I am agnostic, I am still opposed to abortion except in defense of the life of the mother. I hold that position on non-religious grounds.

Yes. I think there are plenty of secular grounds for being opposed to abortion. That's why it irks me when people try to make abortion into a "how much of a role should religion play in politics" issue.

[Kenny]

He might feel that strong rhetoric is called for to counter the shrill from the other side. Lots of religious-right conservatives have been coming across like a bunch of angry adolescents lately.

[headheart]

He is a Christian Skeptic.
His books had great covers, but never really grabbed my attention the way his old man's did.
L'abri had a positive influence on so many people. One of my favourites is Dr. Richard Ganz who pastors a healing church in Ottawa. ( Presbyterian Church where most of the members are qualified counsellors...imagine that.)

We arrived at L’Abri at about five on a Saturday afternoon. I had prepared a careful explanation as to why we were suddenly turning up on their doorstep. However, before I could say anything, the door opened and we were greeted: "You’ve arrived! Welcome.". (..read more..)

Sincerely,
HH

[NeilUnreal]

It's OK to talk about legitimate technical disagreements with deceased relative. Personal gripes, if written down at all, should be left with one's estate for posthumus publication after a decent interval.

-Neil

[headheart]

To My Parents, Francis and Edith Schaeffer

To my father:
A man of courage, conviction and Christian principle, who has stood faithfully in a world of cowardice and compromise.

To my mother:
A woman of vision, depth, and love, who has courageously provided a bright spot of humanity, for her family and so many others.

Thank you both.

From: A Time for Anger - The Myth of Neutrality - Franky Schaeffer.

Finis.

[FormerFundy]

Just finished reading Crazy for God by Frank Schaeffer, the only son of the well-known Christian apologist, Francis Schaeffer. Overall, I was really disappointed in the book. I was hoping to learn more about the intellectual struggles that led Frank to leave evangelicalism but instead I mostly learned a lot about his private life that I would just as soon not known. He seems to be obsessed with sex and especially masturbation. Do I need to know all of his masturbatory details? No. Do I want to know about them? Hell no.
He tells about all of the girls he conquered that came to L’Abri when he was a teenager. He mentions that his mother told him when he was 7 or 8 years old that his father required sexual intercourse every night. Do I really need to know all these details? No.

Its obvious that Frank is primarily a fiction writer. He spends, in my opinion, way too many pages describing in elaborate detail what someone was wearing or what a room looked like, etc. Maybe its just me, but I could care less. The reason I read the book was to try to find out why the son of one of the greatest Christian apologists of the 20th century rejected his father’s faith. I came away with no clear answer other than the fact that many of the evangelical superstars of the 80’s were deeply flawed. I already knew that.

Here are some things that I did find interesting. His father, Francis Schaeffer, suffered from depression, doubts and fits of temper. Even though you would not know it from reading Francis’ works, he was not always confident in his faith. He doubted a lot of things, including sometimes whether or not there is a God. According to Frank, his father talked about suicide often and even gave details as to how he would hang himself. That is sad. Apparently the man needed some medical treatment for his depression, which it seems he never got. The fact that he was verbally abusive to his wife, Edith, and on at least one occasion physically abusive, is quite surprising.

Does all of this discredit the writings of Francis Schaeffer? Not in my opinion. You have to deal with his arguments on their own merit. I personally don’t find his arguments convincing anymore but that is another thread.

As for the book itself, I think it paints a very unflattering picture of the son, Frank Schaeffer. Why someone would want to reveal so much dirty laundry to the public is beyond me.

I wrote the above before I read the last few chapters of the book. In chapter 63, Frank Schaeffer says: Honesty is the only thing satisfying about writing. And honesty is always filled with inconsistency. . . . After my son joined the Marines, I found that I gradually began to understand my life in a new way. I wanted to try to come clean. I wanted to admit my mistakes. I wanted to try to be the same person to everyone I met. (pp. 391, 393).

While I might not see the necessity of revealing everything about one’s personal life and unflattering things about one’s family, I am going to withdraw my criticism. Its his book, not mine. Its his family, not mine.

[headheart]

Why someone would want to reveal so much dirty laundry to the public is beyond me.

FormerFundy,
Perhaps it is Reality TV, and the Internet that has made us feel that somehow our lives are so important that everyone is interested, when in reality gossip columns only attract a certain kind of person whose own life is so boring that they need to fill up on anothers experience. A voyoueristic world we have become.

My own encounter with the popular music scene, was a severe wake up call when close friends tore into others in public and it all sounded no different to what I have seen in every home in every life. Like Cliff Richard sung, 'We are all the same, and when that is understood we can start to live again.'

Sincerely,
HH.

[FormerFundy]

FormerFundy,
Perhaps it is Reality TV, and the Internet that has made us feel that somehow our lives are so important that everyone is interested, when in reality gossip columns only attract a certain kind of person whose own life is so boring that they need to fill up on anothers experience. A voyoueristic world we have become.
Sincerely,
HH.

I think you are exactly right. Very well said!

[FormerFundy]

I will anxiously read Frank Schaeffer's new book: Patience with God: Faith for People Who Don?t Like Religion (or Atheism)

On his blogsite (http://frank-schaeffer.blogspot.com), he says:

This is a book for those of us who have faith in God in the same way we might have the flu, less a choice than a state of being in spite of doubt, in spite of feeling wounded by past religious contagion, in spite of our declared agnosticism or even atheism, in spite of the sorts of idiots like me who are attracted to or, more accurately, bred to, religion and run around defending and /or criticizing it. This book is part of a conversation, not a sermon. I’ve written it the way faith in God, and everything else, happens, to me.

In this new book, he will criticize the "New Atheists" as much as he does Evangelical Christians. He says: I believe that the ideological opposites I’ll be talking about—atheism and fundamentalist religion—often share the same fallacy: truth claims that reek of false certainties. I also believe that there is an alternative that actually matches the way life is lived rather than how we usually talk about belief. I call that alternative “hopeful uncertainty.”

Here are the Table of Contents:

CONTENTS

PROLOGUE Why This Book May Not Be What You Expect ix

PA RT I
Where Extremes Meet

1 How the New Atheists Poison Atheism 3
2 How Many Ways Are There to Say, “There Is No God!”? 15
3 Why Does Dawkins Oppose Faith with Lapel Pins? 27
4 Determinism Religious and Secular Is the Ultimate
Insanity Defense 43
5 Dennett Says Religion Evolved the Way Folk
Music Did 59
6 Hitchens Poisons Hitchens 71
7 The Only Thing Evangelicals Will Never Forgive Is
Not Hating the “Other” 89
8 Spaceship Jesus Will Come Back and Whisk Us Away 109

PA RT I I
Patience With Each Other,
Patience With God

9 So Naked Before a Just and Angry God 125
10 There Is More in Man Than the Mere Breath of His Body 143
11 That “Truth Button” Should Humble Everyone 165
12 How Do Spiritual Catalysts Work? 175
13 “Shedding over Every Daily Task the Light of Love” 185
14 He Never Left a Trace That He’d Been There 201
15 Much More Miraculous Than a Good Cup of Coffee 211
16 “First and Last Alike Receive Your Reward” 221

[NeilUnreal]

I would like to read it as well, but since it's only September and I'm waaaaay over book budget already for the fall, I'll probably wait for the library to get it.

-Neil

[Whag]

Just finished reading Crazy for God by Frank Schaeffer, the only son of the well-known Christian apologist, Francis Schaeffer. Overall, I was really disappointed in the book. I was hoping to learn more about the intellectual struggles that led Frank to leave evangelicalism but instead I mostly learned a lot about his private life that I would just as soon not known. He seems to be obsessed with sex and especially masturbation. Do I need to know all of his masturbatory details? No. Do I want to know about them? Hell no.
He tells about all of the girls he conquered that came to L’Abri when he was a teenager. He mentions that his mother told him when he was 7 or 8 years old that his father required sexual intercourse every night. Do I really need to know all these details? No.

I read this book about a year ago. I agree, Schaeffer tends to overwrite and put a lot of emphasis on prurient details. On the other hand, it's good to hear that the great Francis Schaeffer was a bit of a hothead and a dominating brute. If I was a Christian, it would make me feel better to hear that so-called "giants" of the faith struggled with manic depression, high libido, pre-sermon temper tantrums, etc.

I like Schaeffer more, not less, since reading this book. It's also VERY obvious that Frank loved his father very much, even though now he recognizes the flaws of the fundamentalism that permeated L'Abri.