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Theology 201 Guidelines

This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

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Assurance of Salvation

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
    This part implies that the dead in Christ are not really dead.

    1 Corinthians 15
    17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
    18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

    See also these passages:

    Romans 6:11
    Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    2 Corinthians 5:8
    We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
    1 Corinthians 15:17-18 is where Paul corrects the misconception that those who die before the parousia will not be eligible for eternal life. It is clearly speaking about literal life/death.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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    • #47
      He implies that those who have fallen asleep are not perished. Are you saying that in this verse, he is talking about literal sleep and physical death?

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
        He implies that those who have fallen asleep are not perished. Are you saying that in this verse, he is talking about literal sleep and physical death?
        No; sleep as a figurative term for literal death.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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        • #49
          So those who have literally died (fallen asleep) have not literally died (perished)? Huh?

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          • #50
            Last edited by footwasher; 03-22-2014, 04:36 AM.

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            • #51
              What about never dying? Is that immortality, or just a mode of living?

              John 11
              23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

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              • #52
                I could meet the most powerful, most beautiful, richest persons in the world (and I have met some who were pretty close to having those qualities) and conclude they were living the opposite of the eternal life: the futile life.

                Christ was right: the dead could bury their own dead. Unrepentant, they were just occupying space, using up the nutrients in the ground. He died to try and change that.

                John 8:24"Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

                Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                What about never dying? Is that immortality, or just a mode of living?

                John 11
                23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
                Last edited by footwasher; 03-22-2014, 10:45 AM.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by footwasher View Post
                  I could meet the most powerful, most beautiful, richest persons in the world (and I have met some who were pretty close to having those qualities) and conclude they were living the opposite of the eternal life: the futile life.

                  Christ was right: the dead could bury their own dead. Unrepentant, they were just occupying space, using up the nutrients in the ground. He died to try and change that.

                  John 8:24"Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."
                  This reminds me of how Paul said that the widow who lives for pleasure is dead while she lives (1 Timothy 5:6).
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                  Comment

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