Amen and the unity of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam

[Vivian]

You are poorly read about the history of Amen. Amen is not simply a word meaning "Truth" or "So be it" but Amen is an entity, an Egyptian God that existed 2,000 years before the birth of Jesus. Yes, Amen means truth, but that was one of the greatest attributes of the God Amen. You fail to give Jesus credit for his knowledge about learning from his Hebrew teachers that Amen existed to become the one-universal God.

Hi Nick and all!

Excuse the interruption, but could it be that the Hebrew word aman and the Greek word amen, which both mean faithful, are Names of God, Attributes of God?

(Do a word search. The word translated as faithful or believed in the OT is aman. There is a variation when aman is used as a declaration and when it is used to describe an attribute of a person, but it is the same word which means faithful.)


Exodus 34: The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness (aman), 7 maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin.

Enoch embodied this attribute, was aman, the faithful.

Abraham also embodied this attribute, was aman, the faithful.

And so instead of limiting this attribute to one person, saying perhaps that the Amen is only an Egyptian god figure, might it be wiser to say that when one is clothed in the Name faithfulness, they are the Amen, so that we have many figures, not just this one from Egypt, not just the Angel of the Lord who appeared to John, who were clothed in this Name? Who were messengers of faithfulness to all of humanity?

The Angel of the Lord, the Christ figure appearing to John, embodied this attribute of God - being the Christ it embodied all the attributes of God, thus wore the Name of God, and so it too was the Amen.

What I am trying to point out is that Amen is not simply a name, like Israel is not simply a name, but a Name, indicating that the being is wearing this divine Power or Attribute.

Enoch also bore this attribute, as did Abraham. But it is best not to get lost in there being only one being that can wear the Name of God, but as scripture tells us, we all can. We all can be the Amen, be the faithful.

Shalom!

Viv

[Bowman]

Dear Brother Bowman, It seems that I really feel some affection for you because you are a very devout Christian. Thank you for providing the Greek version of Rev 3:14, which is:



Reading this Greek version is very much the same as the King James version, which states:

KJV, Rev 3:14. And unto the angel of the church of the Laodceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.

You then decide to state that both versions do not agree, which is highly false.

You coveniently forgot to address the Greek, nick.

Are you afraid of Greek, brother?

You are poorly read about the history of Amen. Amen is not simply a word meaning "Truth" or "So be it" but Amen is an entity, an Egyptian God that existed 2,000 years before the birth of Jesus. Yes, Amen means truth, but that was one of the greatest attributes of the God Amen. You fail to give Jesus credit for his knowledge about learning from his Hebrew teachers that Amen existed to become the one-universal God.

The 'scholarship' of your book is that of grade-school level, nick.

You are lacking an education either by poor exposure or a desire not to read history that may run counter to what you have learned in the Bible. This is unfortunate, for you will forever be lost in understanding what Jesus Christ said in Rev. 3:14.

The Greek has been provided for you to address, brother.

Please don't keep running from it...

For you to say that Jesus was never created is heresy because you deny the birth of Jesus by the Virgin Mary upon her conception by the Holy Spirit. You rather take one Gospel (John) over two other Gospels (Matthew and Luke) to substantiate that Jesus is not only a Son of God, but is in fact God. This is logic that makes no sense for Jesus to be both a Son and the Father is heresy. Only God, the Father existed from the very beginning of time and this is in accordance with the Torah, the first Holy Book to be written by the Jews.

You have yet to produce a single verse which states that Jesus was created, nick.

Come on...

Your Greek version does state that Amen was the origin (beginning), the creation, the God. Therefore, it was Amen who was Created.

Wrong.

Jesus is the causal agent in this verse, brother.

God therefore first introduced Himself to mankind as Amen, the God.

This verse has Jesus as the subject bother.

Therefore, you just admitted that Jesus is God.

Jesus explicitely stated he was a Son of Man 74 times in the 4 Gospels and only in the last Gospel of John does Jesus say 5 times he was the Son of God. This lends most people to believe the truth of Jesus that he was born a man of God and it is the Church Fathers that decided to make Jesus into not only a Son of God, but lo and behold, they decided to make Jesus the God of all there is. Geepers, this is a stretch of the imagination. The Church Fathers could not be content that Jesus was born as s Son of God, but they thought they may as well go for it all and proclaim Jesus is God the Father. Is this hersey? We have the Torah (1st Bible), and two Gospels that are in conflict with John's Gospel. If this is not a gross inconsistency, then it is beyond acceptance by those who desire to believe in God.

Jesus states directly, in the first-person singular, that He is God.

This, however, does not fit with your paradigm...so....you ignore it.

Time to re-write your book.

As far as you, Mr. Bowman, are concerned, you have got to read more and learn why Jesus said Amen was the origin, the creation, the God. Jesus could equally have said he was the origin, the creation, the God - but Jesus is not a man to propound an untruth. Jesus gives credit where credit is due and is trying to inform "all those that hath and ear" to listen to his words. Amen is the root of man's belief in one-universal God. Amen was accepted by the Jews and has profoundly influenced the development ofg the Judaic, Christian, and Islamic religions. Until the religious leaders of these religions acknowledge Amen as Common Bond of their religious beliefs, ther will be no peace on earth.

Until you read Future of God Amen, you, Mr. Bowman will be lost in not fully understanding the words of Jesus. you do not even proclaim the Word of Jesus, which is love one another. Until our sistersw and brothers, from every nation learn to love one another, there will be not peace on earth. The Word of Jesus is mankind's salvation. Jesus is the Word of God the Father. Read Future of God Amen.

The best advice to give you would be to recant all material in your entry-level book and take a year off to actually study the original languages before making another giant gaff, nick.

[Nick Ginex]

Dear Reece, thank you for the wealth of information you provided regarding the usage of Amen and its multiple meanings.

I will gladly respond to your comments because all of what you have provided is true and worthy of a reply. I am delighted to
find so much of what you provided does, in many ways, support the reverence in announcing Amen by many worshippers in
Temples, Churches, and some Mosques (I understand by some Greek Orthodox followers that Amen is not permitted to be
announced by the worshippers of Allah.

In the meantime, Reece, have you read Future of God Amen? This book provides a history
of the development of the religious aspects of the Egyptian civilization and how the God Amen came to be known as the one-universal
God. Many of your questions have been answered to validate that Amen was a name incorporated in the throne names of over 13 pharaohs
2,000 years before the birth of Jesus Christ. I am a Catholic by training but believe in one God, that God is the same God that
should be worshipped by all followers of the three major religions.

I do not want to change any worshipper’s belief in God, however, I do feel it is incumbent upon me to reveal to honest loving believers
in God what I have learned in my life. There is a great need for our religious leaders to be flexible in their ability to understand God.
The Egyptian Priesthood had revised their conception of God(s) until, finally, they wrote scripture extolling Amon
As the Sole God.

It is my belief that Jesus was schooled by esteemed and learned teachers of the Torah who introduced him to the God Amen. There
is no shame in admitting that God first introduced Himself to mankind to the Egyptian people in the name of Amen. Religious leaders
should acknowledge the words of Jesus who proclaimed Amen as the beginning of the creation of God. Unfortunately, they are mentally
trapped by their own dogma to "see" the validity of what Jesus states in Rev 3:14.

Future of God Amen offers a history of how man came to believe in one-universal God and how that
God has profoundly influenced the development of Judaic, Christian, and Islamic religions. More importantly, it provides recommendations
to religious leaders and their followers to unify their belief in God and teach the Word of God - love your sisters and brothers from every nation.

[Nick Ginex]

Dear Reece, thank you for the wealth of information you provided regarding the usage of Amen and its multiple meanings. I will gladly respond to your comments because all of what you have provided is true and worthy of a reply. I am delighted to find so much of what you provided does, in many ways, support the reverence in announcing Amen by many worshippers in Temples, Churches, and some Mosques (I understand by some Greek Orthodox followers that Amen is not permitted to be announced by the worshippers of Allah).

In the meantime, Reece, have you read Future of God Amen? This book provides a history of the development of the religious aspects of the Egyptian civilization and how the God Amen came to be known as the one-universal God. Many of your questions have been answered to validate that Amen was a name incorporated in the throne names of over 13 pharaohs 2,000 years before the birth of Jesus Christ. I am a Catholic by training but believe in one God, that God is the same God that should be worshipped by all followers of the three major religions.

I do not want to change any worshipper’s belief in God, however, I do feel it is incumbent upon me to reveal to honest loving believers in God what I have learned in my life. There is a great need for our religious leaders to be flexible in their ability to understand God.
The Egyptian Priesthood had revised their conception of God(s) until, finally, they wrote scripture extolling Amon As the Sole God. This shows that the Egyptian Priesthood were capable in revising their conception of God; a characteristic that is absent with our religious leaders of the Judaic, Christian, and Islamic religions of today.

It is my belief that Jesus was schooled by esteemed and learned teachers of the Torah who introduced him to the God Amen. There is no shame in admitting that God first introduced Himself to the Egyptian people in the name of Amen. Religious leaders should acknowledge the words of Jesus who proclaimed Amen as, "the beginning of the creation of God". Unfortunately, they are mentally trapped by their own dogma to "see" the validity of what Jesus states in Rev 3:14.

Future of God Amen offers a history of how man came to believe in one-universal God and how that God has profoundly influenced the development of Judaic, Christian, and Islamic religions. More importantly, it provides recommendations to religious leaders and their followers to unify their belief in God and teach the Word of God - love your sisters and brothers from every nation.

[Vivian]

Hi Nick!

I thought that perhaps you were responding to my post? Vivian?

I have to first ask you a question...is it necessary for us to believe as you do about the Egyptian God, Amon, or the Word of God, for us to obey the commandment to love one another as our self? I understand the spirit that is perhaps behind your attempt...to show that God has revealed himself to other races and cultures beyond the children of Israel, and our rejection of other's religious beliefs is not loving others as we would our selves.

But if I might offer some counsel? Extolling Amon, the Egyptian God, as the sole God, and implying that Jesus was in some way recognizing this Amon as superior to himself in the verse from Revelation is not going to win us any friends and is not going to positively influence others. Among the wisdom traditions it is well known that Egypt once had a true revelation of God, as did India with Krishna and China with Buddha. But the revelation of God in Christ Jesus is far superior to these for he opened the Way not just for transcendence from this world, or to gain right understanding, but for us to find Unity with God. It is well known that whatever they once had 'right', the Egyptians fell, as did the Jews eventually, so much so that Biblical 'Egypt" like Babylon became a name for a place of spiritual adultery.

To put it bluntly, there is nothing in Amon that we cannot find in Jesus. And while you found something worthwhile in your own journey in studying Egyptian civilization, there is much distortion there and so I would not personally direct someone in that direction.

Again, I recognize the intent, but I must speak out against the degradation of the revelation of God in Christ Jesus in order to elevate the revelation of God in Amon.

Dear Reece, thank you for the wealth of information you provided regarding the usage of Amen and its multiple meanings. I will gladly respond to your comments because all of what you have provided is true and worthy of a reply. I am delighted to find so much of what you provided does, in many ways, support the reverence in announcing Amen by many worshippers in Temples, Churches, and some Mosques (I understand by some Greek Orthodox followers that Amen is not permitted to be announced by the worshippers of Allah).

In the meantime, Reece, have you read Future of God Amen? This book provides a history of the development of the religious aspects of the Egyptian civilization and how the God Amen came to be known as the one-universal God. Many of your questions have been answered to validate that Amen was a name incorporated in the throne names of over 13 pharaohs 2,000 years before the birth of Jesus Christ. I am a Catholic by training but believe in one God, that God is the same God that should be worshipped by all followers of the three major religions.

I am glad that you have found some expansion of your Catholic upbringing in the study of the Egyptian civilization. I will offer though, that God is not through with you, and while it was useful to show you His true revelation in Amon, it feels now that with your attachment and elevation of Amon, you have made him an idol. We all do similar things in our journey to Truth. Perhaps now is the time to let him go? I think the book served you well, but it is not Truth, it is only an expansion of understanding beyond what you were given in Catholicism, which is good, but it is best not to make this understanding your new god and religion, but recognize how it aided in opening your own mind and heart, and let it go.

I do not want to change any worshipper’s belief in God, however, I do feel it is incumbent upon me to reveal to honest loving believers in God what I have learned in my life. There is a great need for our religious leaders to be flexible in their ability to understand God.

Yes, I agree. But just as God had to guide you to this expanded understanding, he will have to guide them as well. When we try to force the vehicles, through which God teaches us, onto others, we become a stumbling block for them. We work against God's purposes.

The Egyptian Priesthood had revised their conception of God(s) until, finally, they wrote scripture extolling Amon As the Sole God. This shows that the Egyptian Priesthood were capable in revising their conception of God; a characteristic that is absent with our religious leaders of the Judaic, Christian, and Islamic religions of today.

What ever truths they found in their revision, they obviously did not stick, for Egypt became a name for 'the world', or 'a place of spiritual adultery', just like Babylon. By the time the children of Israel were in the promised land, 'Egypt' was used by God of the Bible derogatorily. You aren't going to win fighting against that. I offer that the research you have done and the book you have written is about your personal journey with God.

It is my belief that Jesus was schooled by esteemed and learned teachers of the Torah who introduced him to the God Amen. There is no shame in admitting that God first introduced Himself to the Egyptian people in the name of Amen. Religious leaders should acknowledge the words of Jesus who proclaimed Amen as, "the beginning of the creation of God". Unfortunately, they are mentally trapped by their own dogma to "see" the validity of what Jesus states in Rev 3:14.

Not likely, given what God thought of Egypt at the time.

The validity that Jesus states in Revelation 3:14 is likened to the validity that John states in 1 John 4:8 (God is Love) and Moses states in Deuteronomy 4:24 and the author of Hebrews in 12:29 (God is a consuming fire).

God is indeed Amen! God is faithful, and I do not doubt that the Egyptian God Amon was a manifestation of God's faithfulness. But Jesus or Yeshua, is not only faithful, or Amen, he is the image of the Father. Yeshua meaning YHWH saves. So in Jesus we have not only Amen, but all the attributes of God, so that Jesus is superior to the Egyptian God Amon who given his name appears to be solely know for only one attribute of God, faithfulness, not the Godhead in its fullness.

Future of God Amen offers a history of how man came to believe in one-universal God and how that God has profoundly influenced the development of Judaic, Christian, and Islamic religions. More importantly, it provides recommendations to religious leaders and their followers to unify their belief in God and teach the Word of God - love your sisters and brothers from every nation.

That is good, Nick, and good to find in our personal journey, but appears that this revision did not last. Perhaps it was only an intellectual revision, without the Power of the Godhead behind it? This revelation of God in Amon that led the Egyptians to a belief in a one-universal God was obviously not able to sustain itself. In Christ Jesus, while we are not going to find such a sustaining belief in what we call the outer church - Catholicism and all the public religions that sprang from it, we have a sustaining belief, due to the Light Presence and Power brought into this world through Christ Jesus - as a manifestation not only of the Amen of God, but the Godhead in its fullness - in some esoteric or lesser known spiritual traditions that sprang out of the incarnation of Jesus and were able to be sustained underground even when Constantine and his one universal religion took over.

Do not give up searching! I do think you have found a piece of the puzzle in Amon, but you are not done yet! There is so much more to discover.

Shalom!

Viv

[reece1984]

Dear Reece, thank you for the wealth of information you provided regarding the usage of Amen and its multiple meanings.

I will gladly respond to your comments because all of what you have provided is true and worthy of a reply. I am delighted to
find so much of what you provided does, in many ways, support the reverence in announcing Amen by many worshippers in
Temples, Churches, and some Mosques (I understand by some Greek Orthodox followers that Amen is not permitted to be
announced by the worshippers of Allah.

In the meantime, Reece, have you read Future of God Amen? This book provides a history
of the development of the religious aspects of the Egyptian civilization and how the God Amen came to be known as the one-universal
God. Many of your questions have been answered to validate that Amen was a name incorporated in the throne names of over 13 pharaohs
2,000 years before the birth of Jesus Christ. I am a Catholic by training but believe in one God, that God is the same God that
should be worshipped by all followers of the three major religions.

I do not want to change any worshipper’s belief in God, however, I do feel it is incumbent upon me to reveal to honest loving believers
in God what I have learned in my life. There is a great need for our religious leaders to be flexible in their ability to understand God.
The Egyptian Priesthood had revised their conception of God(s) until, finally, they wrote scripture extolling Amon
As the Sole God.

It is my belief that Jesus was schooled by esteemed and learned teachers of the Torah who introduced him to the God Amen. There
is no shame in admitting that God first introduced Himself to mankind to the Egyptian people in the name of Amen. Religious leaders
should acknowledge the words of Jesus who proclaimed Amen as the beginning of the creation of God. Unfortunately, they are mentally
trapped by their own dogma to "see" the validity of what Jesus states in Rev 3:14.

Future of God Amen offers a history of how man came to believe in one-universal God and how that
God has profoundly influenced the development of Judaic, Christian, and Islamic religions. More importantly, it provides recommendations
to religious leaders and their followers to unify their belief in God and teach the Word of God - love your sisters and brothers from every nation.

I have not read your book because I have no credit card to purchase it, and frankly I am strapped for cash right now anyway. I would like to read it though. But let me reply to what you have said here that

The Egyptian Priesthood had revised their conception of God(s) until, finally, they wrote scripture extolling Amon
As the Sole God.

From this mention of revising their concept of God, are you saying that the Egyptians had false concepts of God of their own making, and when God finally revealed himself to them they then revised their understanding? Or, is it that they didn't understand what god had revealed about himself at first and had to work it out logically till they came to a better understanding? I'm not qite sure what you mean.

I am assuming that you believe the African civilization to be the first civilization, with special emphasis on Egypt (though I believe Egypt is the daughter of Ethiopia). However, is it your contention that when God first created man in Africa that he revealed himself to them accurately? If so, how comes they eventually needed to revise the concept of God? How did the concept revealed by God become distorted?

I am curious. You say you are a Catholic by upbringing, so I assume you believe the Bible is God's word; is it? Or is it just man's feeble attempt at trying to understand God? Which parts of the Bible do you accept as truth and which parts don't you accept as truth and why?

Is there any official Egyptian text that contains the truth about God? I can only assume that they committed what God revealed to them in writing.

I believe that one should hear a matter before he judges it; so I am asking these questions so as to be fully informed before I respond. Like I said, I would love to read your book, but I can't purchase it at present. Too bad there is no free online version; but, but if you want to provide quotes from it, I am welcome to this....I have read some of the ancient Egyptian literature, and it ocntradicts the Bible as well as common sense flat out, hence, I have chosen not to believe it. Also, I have asked God, and the Holy Spirit has been leading me in another direction aside from Egyptian mythology.But I am open-;minded still. Thank you for the courteous way in which you have replied to my questions thus far. I look forward to hearing you again on this.

[Nick Ginex]

Dear Tanakh, please do think I have no respect for all three faiths, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. The problem is that I believe in one-universal God but the followers of these 3 faiths all think their God is different. To me, it is the same God being worship by a different group of people that have adopted God to conform to their traditions and customs.

The Jews have the true one-universal God but they kept that God to themselves. Jesus, a son from the line of Abraham and David, came along and widened the belief in God (with the help of Paul, another Jew) to accept all people. Then along came Muhammad who claims he was visited by the angel Gabriel and formed a religion to consolidate the Arabic tribes and establish an Islamic Empire not by love for his God but by the sword. In any case, it is the same God used to satisfy the power of religious leaders to unite a people.

After reading that the God Amen existed for over 2,000 years before the birth of Jesus, and the Hebrews absorbed many of the beliefs of the Egyptians, it became obvious to me that the beginning of the creation of God started in Egypt. But lo and behold, Jesus himself proclaims that Amen is the beginning of the creation of God. I have not started a new religion. I simply believe in the same God you do except that your people (the Hebrews) took what they learned from Egypt, via Moses, and many of the beliefs just transitioned into writing of the Torah.

If I am in error on the facts, please let me know. We learn from each other.

[Tanakh Keeper]

If I am in error on the facts, please let me know. We learn from each other.

I don't see any facts in your post.

[Nick Ginex]

Hello Viv, it is a pleasure to hear from you again. You bring up a valid point that Amen has double meanings but in fact, its basic connotations are truth, truly, verily, so be it, firmness, the faithful, and as mentioned by Reese in his response to me with a wonderful research of Amen, there is, “God, trustworthy King,” and, “ the God of Truth.” All of these meanings are consistent with an attribute of the Egyptian God Amen. In fact, the greatest attribute of Amen is “Truth.”

Only with deciphered hieroglyphics has the modern world learned that Amen was used in the throne names of pharaohs as far back as 2,000 BCE. We know that the Egyptians were invaded by Semitic tribes of Shepard Kings around 1675 BCE who ruled Upper Egypt for about 95 years. They took over many of the temples and took on the customs and beliefs of the Egyptians until they were expelled by the pharaoh, Ahmose I, in 1580 BCE. It is also true that Abraham entered Egypt just before and after the Semitic invasion. After Ahmose I routed the barbarians back into Palestine and Syria, other pharaohs, such as Thutmose I entered these countries and built Egyptian temples as far North as Byblos, just below Tunip. This same pharaoh brought the sons of captured kings and princes to be taught the customs and beliefs of the Egyptians so that upon their return to their homelands in Palestine and Syria they may assume leadership and spread the religious beliefs of the Egyptians.

So Viv, Amen is a name that signifies Truth and is the first god to be conceived as the one-universal God. You see, with this history, which is greatly amplified in Future of God Amen, we can readily understand and appreciate what Jesus is saying when is proclaimed to all those that hath an ear, that Amen is, “the beginning of the creation of God.” Christian religious leaders will try to pooh-pooh this obvious conclusion because they feel threatened that their belief system will be discredited. But this is far from the truth. When Christian religious leaders acknowledge the Truth that God first introduced Himself to mankind as Amen, then they will be on solid ground by substantiating that their beliefs are in concert with the original God that has profoundly influenced the development of the Judaic, Christian, and Islamic religions.

Thank you Viv for helping me to articulate my thoughts. I hope I have presented them clearly.

You are a Daughter of God,
Nicholas P. Ginex

[Vivian]

Hello Viv, it is a pleasure to hear from you again.

Hi Nick -


It is a pleasure to hear from you.

You bring up a valid point that Amen has double meanings but in fact, its basic connotations are truth, truly, verily, so be it, firmness, the faithful, and as mentioned by Reese in his response to me with a wonderful research of Amen, there is, “God, trustworthy King,” and, “ the God of Truth.” All of these meanings are consistent with an attribute of the Egyptian God Amen. In fact, the greatest attribute of Amen is “Truth.”

I did a little research and am drawn to the meaning "hidden". Perhaps we can say that amon means hidden truth?

It is wonderful to think that the ancient Egyptians were able to see something of God Most High, which they embodied as the God Amon. I see that there is a dispute as to whether this occurred in 14,000 BC or 9,000 BC. But what is obvious is that the pharaohs use the image of Amon for their own personal gain, which brings to mind what Constantine and the religious leaders at the council of Nicene did - they distorted the history of a god-like figure to serve their own purposes.

I guess to me, it does not matter. If I were Egyptian - born and raised in that culture, I might find interest in the more true representations of God within my culture. There possibly might be some esoteric traditions, who have carried on the work began when the revelation of Amon was first received.

Again, following a historical figure is a trap. We have the Risen Christ, and contained within the Risen Christ is all true revelations of God given to humanity, in all cultures and at all points of human history. Not only are these true revelations contained in the Risen Christ, so is all Light Presence and Power. It is the latter that is most important, for it is through the Light Presence and Power, the Name signified as Yod Hei Shin Vav Hei, or commonly called Yeshua, that we will find the Power for our healing and ultimate salvation.

Historical studies, though, such as discovering that there were in other cultures true revelations of God, will open our minds and hearts to a true experiencing of the Risen Christ here and now. This is what is most important. The historical Amon cannot heal or save us. Nor can the historical Jesus. Only the Risen Christ can save us.

To say this a bit different: the studies of Amon are not the Hidden Truth. They at best can point to the Hidden Truth.

I have no doubt that when the Image appearing to John declared Amen, the faithful, he was speaking inclusively of the revelation of God in Amon. Not exclusively, though. We have a greater revelation of Truth, of the Hidden Truth, and that is the Risen Christ.

Our historical studies can only point to this. If we want to find the Hidden Truth, we have to find it in the here and now, in the Risen Christ, which again, will embody all revelations of Truth, including that made in Amon.

When I first awakened about a decade ago, I too search through history, for these same understandings, such as what you found in Amon, which revealed that was is taught at Sunday School is not the whole story. For me, it began with studies of Babylon and the Epic of Gigamesh, the pagan roots to our Christian holidays, moving onto to Krishna and Buddha. God has been busy in this world! My study of history revealed there have been many true revelations of God beyond what is found in the Bible! But the study of history is just that - the study of history. What heals, what saves is God here and now, in the present. And if we can find the Light Power and Presence of Christ, that is what we should follow. These historical studies might open our hearts and minds, but this aspect of our journey is personal, for us alone.

Only when we have made contact with the Light Presence and Power in the present, does our journey really begin.

Only with deciphered hieroglyphics has the modern world learned that Amen was used in the throne names of pharaohs as far back as 2,000 BCE. We know that the Egyptians were invaded by Semitic tribes of Shepard Kings around 1675 BCE who ruled Upper Egypt for about 95 years. They took over many of the temples and took on the customs and beliefs of the Egyptians until they were expelled by the pharaoh, Ahmose I, in 1580 BCE. It is also true that Abraham entered Egypt just before and after the Semitic invasion. After Ahmose I routed the barbarians back into Palestine and Syria, other pharaohs, such as Thutmose I entered these countries and built Egyptian temples as far North as Byblos, just below Tunip. This same pharaoh brought the sons of captured kings and princes to be taught the customs and beliefs of the Egyptians so that upon their return to their homelands in Palestine and Syria they may assume leadership and spread the religious beliefs of the Egyptians.

Indeed we can find western kings, conquerors, and rulers who used Jesus Christ in the same way! Such is the way of darkness, but none of these usages are God himself.

So Viv, Amen is a name that signifies Truth and is the first god to be conceived as the one-universal God. You see, with this history, which is greatly amplified in Future of God Amen, we can readily understand and appreciate what Jesus is saying when is proclaimed to all those that hath an ear, that Amen is, “the beginning of the creation of God.”

Again, I am rather drawn to another definition of amon - hidden truth, and will say that the HiddenTruth is the beginning of the creation of God!

Christian religious leaders will try to pooh-pooh this obvious conclusion because they feel threatened that their belief system will be discredited. But this is far from the truth. When Christian religious leaders acknowledge the Truth that God first introduced Himself to mankind as Amen, then they will be on solid ground by substantiating that their beliefs are in concert with the original God that has profoundly influenced the development of the Judaic, Christian, and Islamic religions.

What matters is the Risen Christ, which is inclusive of all true revelations. And such cannot be found in our studies of history, but only in the here and now.

Thank you Viv for helping me to articulate my thoughts. I hope I have presented them clearly.

You are a Daughter of God,
Nicholas P. Ginex

You are welcome, Nick. And please accept my apologies if I was too harsh. I do believe that you have found something, and it might point to Truth, but it is not Truth itself. That can only be known right here and right now, in our present moment experiencing.

Shalom!

Viv

[Nick Ginex]

Thank you Viv for your long well thought out response to me. I did respond to your comments about the definition and connotation of the name Amen. I hope it clearly shows the significance of the Egyptian God’s name for his popularity was around for 2,000 years before the birth of Jesus. However, this God was not originally conceived as the one-universal God immediately but was an outgrowth of a series of developments, which started with the Egyptian God of all creation, Atum. The book, Future of God Amen, provides a detailed history of the religious development of the one-god belief and I hope you will be curious enough to read and comment upon it. I will try to address each of your points for you give me an opportunity to learn from your perspective and it helps me to see if I need to revise some of my findings or couch them in a more agreeable and satisfactory way.

Let’s visit your 1st paragraph. “I have to first ask you a question...is it necessary for us to believe as you do about the Egyptian God, Amon, or the Word of God, for us to obey the commandment to love one another as our self? I understand the spirit that is perhaps behind your attempt...to show that God has revealed himself to other races and cultures beyond the children of Israel, and our rejection of other's religious beliefs is not loving others as we would ourselves.”

Viv, it is not necessary to believe in the Egyptian God Amen; only to acknowledge His influence on the development of the Judaic, Christian, and Islamic religions. This God has been superimposed by the Jewish God, a Son of God, and Allah. What Future of God Amen provides is a history of how mankind developed the belief in one-universal God. It took thousands of years until by the time of Ramses II reign, the Priesthood of Amon wrote Amon As the Sole God. To erase man’s spiritual growth is a dishonorable thing for the religious leaders of the Judaic, Christian, and Islamic religions. They should welcome history that reveals how much they have acquired and learned from the religion of the Egyptians. Only with Truth, can people better accept the belief in God.

Is it necessary to obey the Word of God? Unfortunately, few people know the Word of God. They know Jesus Christ is the Word but they do not know what his message and mission was. Jesus, in the last Gospel of John stated the Word as a command 3 times. It was the last command given by Jesus – love one another. This command Viv is much more comprehensive than, “Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.” (Viv, please help me and reference where this command is stated in the Bible.)

Future of God Amen is an attempt, as you surmised, to inform all believers of the Judaic, Christian, and Islamic religions to acknowledge that their God has matured from the values and beliefs in the first one-universal God Amen. Mankind has subconsciously refused to ignore the name Amen and has kept its connotation as being Truth, firm, and yes, as Reese revealed to me, it also means “God, trustworthy King,” and, “ the God of Truth.” All these references further support the fact that they emulate the God Amen.

Viv, you then expressed some concern about Amen by stating: “But if I might offer some counsel? Extolling Amon, the Egyptian God, as the sole God, and implying that Jesus was in some way recognizing this Amon as superior to himself in the verse from Revelation is not going to win us any friends and is not going to positively influence others.” I have never extolled Amen as being superior to Jesus but only stated what Jesus is proclaiming to the rest of the world in John’s Revelation 3:14. It is difficult to undo a gross error by the Church Fathers who do not acknowledge that Jesus was referring to Amen as being, “the beginning of the creation of God.” What Jesus has said is a Truth, in that Amen is the first one-universal God and is the root and foundation of the belief in God by worshippers of the Judaic religion. Notice that Jesus stated Amen was the ”faithful and true witness.” Jesus did not say Amen is God but acknowledged that he is the beginning of the creation of God now worshipped by the Hebrews. As the faithful and true witness, could Amen be a form of the Holy Spirit, the spirit of God that pervades the universe and entered into the hearts and minds of the Egyptian people?

Under no circumstance should any religious leader deny the spiritual belief Egyptians had for their God Amen. Simply because Egypt fell due to the many invasions by Palestinians, Syrians, Libyans, Nubians, Greeks, Romans, and finally Islamic occupation, does not mean Egypt’s God is nothing to revere and should be ignored as an accident in the history of man. It is to be noted that the greatest library in Alexandria in Egypt had its books destroyed to dismiss much of the history of mankind. Were the books destroyed by religious leaders?

Viv, you then made the statement, “Jesus is far superior to these for he opened the Way not just for transcendence from this world, or to gain right understanding, but for us to find Unity with God.” You must not forget Moses, Father of the Judaic religion. True, what you said about Jesus, but he is a follow-on of Moses who, brought up in the palace of a pharaoh for 40 years, taught many of the Egyptian beliefs to the Hebrews. You see, there were many righteous men before Jesus, who himself learned much wisdom from Hebrew masters of the Torah. Do not forget that both Jesus and his mother Mary were brought up and raised by Jewish Holy Men; Jesus was a benefactor of such learning. Jesus was a man of God and it was the Church Fathers that elevated Jesus to not only being the Son of God, for they were not content with that, they formulated the Trinity generations after the Gospels were written, and made Jesus not only co-equal with God, but to be God.

How sad that religious leaders would fabricate a concept that is wholly inconsistent with the original belief of God in the Torah; inconsistent with the fact that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Ghost (God) and created within the womb of his mother Mary. Shall we neglect the contributions made by the Egyptian Priesthood, Moses, the Holy Men that wrote the Torah and only extoll Jesus? Jesus never wrote his beliefs but yes, he was a Son of Man. A reference he explicitly made of himself 76 times in the Gospels and only 5 times, in the last Gospel of John, did he explicitly state he was the Son of God. It is possible to ignore the honesty of Jesus saying he is the Son of Man and accept he is a Son of God. But to say Jesus is co-equal to and is God is heresy, a blatant distortion of the Truth. In Truth, God is mysterious, unknowable, and incomprehensible. Nobody really knows God.

Viv, I do not like an untruth and dishonesty by religious leaders who, in years past were able to fabricate an idea and promulgate it as Truth. I stress this because you also referred to Jesus as the God Head and also wrote, “So in Jesus we have not only Amen, but all the attributes of God, so that Jesus is superior to the Egyptian God Amon who given his name appears to be solely known for only one attribute of God, faithfulness, not the Godhead in its fullness.”

You need to read Future of God Amen to learn that Amen was revered for many other attributes other than Truth and faithfulness. You are describing Jesus as the Godhead, which implies that he is the head of the Father, the God that conceived Jesus within the womb of Mary. You know, most people are very shallow in their belief of God and unless the reverence is given to a God they would not give much credibility to the words of a Son of Man. I would follow the words of Jesus without him being raised to the level of a God. Would you?

Future of God Amen is an attempt to wake people up to the truth of the beginning of God and how that God has influenced the development of the Judaic, Christian, and Islamic religions. But also, in writing this book, many weaknesses have been revealed in the scriptures of these religions, especially in the Koran. Few people have the courage to reveal what I have written in Future of God Amen but I pursued such a course because I love humanity and am compelled to share the Truth with others. If I do not make such an effort, who will? Circumstances in life make us what we are in terms of experience, education, and the people and teachers one meets in life. We all have a different set of eyes and disposition and therefore see things differently. I am blessed by God to think with a disposition of love. Hopefully there will be others who understand that the Truth will prevail.

Only with Truth, will science and faith be compatible in our quest to know God. Science tests its findings to substantiate the Truth of their conclusions, and religious beliefs must always be based upon Truth of man’s experiences to validate the faith in God. Both approaches must operate on Truth; one is actual verification while the other is hypothetically true based upon thoughts derived from experience. Faith without logical reasoning means nothing. Belief must be rooted in valid thoughts that are supported by the gift of curiosity and thinking that sometimes result in realities. Many of our greatest inventions and discoveries where first conceived with the mind. Even when the mind cannot be satisfied with actual findings, the gut feel of Truth can be satisfied by logic devoid of lies and fabrications, which our scriptures have due to the inability to correct certain thoughts no longer acceptable.

Accept the Truth of Jesus in his acknowledgement of Amen as, “the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.” These are words of great insight and a Revelation for the minds of believers to reflect upon today. Only until Amen is accepted as a Common Bond by religious leaders of the three major religions will there finally be a unification in the belief of God and a breakthrough in obeying the Word of God – love one another.

My best wishes to Viv, a Daughter of God
Nicholas P. Ginex

[reece1984]

Jesus was a man of God and it was the Church Fathers that elevated Jesus to not only being the Son of God, for they were not content with that, they formulated the Trinity generations after the Gospels were written, and made Jesus not only co-equal with God, but to be God.

How sad that religious leaders would fabricate a concept that is wholly inconsistent with the original belief of God in the Torah; inconsistent with the fact that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Ghost (God) and created within the womb of his mother Mary. Shall we neglect the contributions made by the Egyptian Priesthood, Moses, the Holy Men that wrote the Torah and only extoll Jesus? Jesus never wrote his beliefs but yes, he was a Son of Man. A reference he explicitly made of himself 76 times in the Gospels and only 5 times, in the last Gospel of John, did he explicitly state he was the Son of God. It is possible to ignore the honesty of Jesus saying he is the Son of Man and accept he is a Son of God. But to say Jesus is co-equal to and is God is heresy, a blatant distortion of the Truth. In Truth, God is mysterious, unknowable, and incomprehensible. Nobody really knows God.

Nicholas P. Ginex

Actually, the Bible itself teaches that Jesus is God. (Isaiah 9:6; John 20:28-29), and that he is the creator (Hebrews 1:8-10; John 1:1-3, 14). I recommend you read the church fathers from 90 C.E. to 250 C.E. and you'll see that the trinity was taught from the time of the apostles and their students, Polycarp, Ignatius, etc. The OT also teaches the trinity as well, and I can provide references for that. So I'm wondering if you believe in the whole Bible, or just parts of it.

[Vivian]

Thank you Viv for your long well thought out response to me.

Hi Nick!

If I might go through your response in detail. Some of what I said in the earliest post was offered in a hurry, without contemplation regarding how I can most be of help.

Indeed you are on to something. I just wish to offer you a seed of inspiration to seek further, for actually you have only begun in unraveling the religions of the dominions and principalities of evil in the heavenly places that always, in this world, unfold after a true revelation of God, for most of humanity is not ready yet for God in full. Thus they are drawn to, believe in, and worship a small or limited aspect of God.

I believe this is the spirit behind the insights you are wishing to share in your book?

I must offer that the current state of things is all well and good, for most of humanity flourishes as they can under this smaller perspective, their souls not ready yet for the 'bigger picture'.

I did respond to your comments about the definition and connotation of the name Amen. I hope it clearly shows the significance of the Egyptian God’s name for his popularity was around for 2,000 years before the birth of Jesus. However, this God was not originally conceived as the one-universal God immediately but was an outgrowth of a series of developments, which started with the Egyptian God of all creation, Atum.

OK. Are you saying then that this God you (and the Egyptians) are calling 'Amon' is a conception born of the intellect of humanity? Making it is an attempt to intellectualize a larger picture? Thus Amon, as you present 'him', is an idea, a philosophy, born of the mind of man in ancient Egypt, although you feel it is a more accurate picture of God?

What I was attempting to address is this mental idea of God (Amon) versus God Himself. True this might be a better mental idea than the ones we find in the outer churches of the world (by outer churches I mean what the masses think of when they consider 'Christianity', 'Islam', 'Buddhism', 'Hinduism', etc.), but the ideas behind the mental construct 'Amon' are also limited mental constructs. And being mental constructs they are not God Most High, and being limited, there is more, much more that we can add to this mental construct to create a more expansive, advanced, mental construct of God Most High.

The book, Future of God Amen, provides a detailed history of the religious development of the one-god belief and I hope you will be curious enough to read and comment upon it.

My reading of this book would not be to add to my mental construct of God Most High, for I have found a much more expansion and advanced construct, but to help you in seeing that there is more available to you already. In other words, if you hunger and thirst, the understanding you are seeking already exists in this world, for you to find, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, or the Name of God.

To advance in our mental constructs of God, we have to though hold our current construct loosely, for as you are pointing to, God Most High is everything. Everything that exists in heaven and on earth, every molecule of matter and every thought of man, including every thought that man has of God, is included in God Most High.

I will try to address each of your points for you give me an opportunity to learn from your perspective and it helps me to see if I need to revise some of my findings or couch them in a more agreeable and satisfactory way.

Let’s visit your 1st paragraph. “I have to first ask you a question...is it necessary for us to believe as you do about the Egyptian God, Amon, or the Word of God, for us to obey the commandment to love one another as our self? I understand the spirit that is perhaps behind your attempt...to show that God has revealed himself to other races and cultures beyond the children of Israel, and our rejection of other's religious beliefs is not loving others as we would ourselves.”

Viv, it is not necessary to believe in the Egyptian God Amen; only to acknowledge His influence on the development of the Judaic, Christian, and Islamic religions. This God has been superimposed by the Jewish God, a Son of God, and Allah.

I would say that yes, being able to integrate all ideas of God into our 'construct' will aid us in our journey, which eventually results in our letting go of all constructs, for constructs restrict, they place limits on what God Most High actually is - preventing us from actually experiencing God Most High, seeing Him face to face.

What Future of God Amen provides is a history of how mankind developed the belief in one-universal God. It took thousands of years until by the time of Ramses II reign, the Priesthood of Amon wrote Amon As the Sole God. To erase man’s spiritual growth is a dishonorable thing for the religious leaders of the Judaic, Christian, and Islamic religions. They should welcome history that reveals how much they have acquired and learned from the religion of the Egyptians. Only with Truth, can people better accept the belief in God.

They won't because they are unable.

The Christian outer religion is powerful - it can be likened to the outer court of the Judaic temple, where the masses gather, but only those ready for purification can enter into the temple, or a greater knowing of God Most High.

So those who are able to see more have to leave, they no longer can remain within the Christian outer religion's constrictions. But though they appear to be 'leaving' Christianity, they are actually drawing nearer to God, finding the narrow path that leads to the Holy of Holies, moving from the courtyard to inside the temple - to use Old Testament imagery.

And let me ask by "Amon As the Sole God" do you mean that Amon became a name that they decided to give to this mental construct of one Sole God? I want to differentiate something here. Amon was not revealed by God Most High as His Name, yes? It was a name given a God with lesser attributes, that men applied to their revised idea of a one Sole God?

Is it necessary to obey the Word of God? Unfortunately, few people know the Word of God. They know Jesus Christ is the Word but they do not know what his message and mission was. Jesus, in the last Gospel of John stated the Word as a command 3 times. It was the last command given by Jesus – love one another. This command Viv is much more comprehensive than, “Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.” (Viv, please help me and reference where this command is stated in the Bible.)

Matthew 7:12

And this 'commandment' exists in many religions. LINK

The Word of God is much more than this, my friend, though when one experiences the Word of God, this is one of the admonitions that is brought down into the mental plane through the layers of our being. The Word of God is what comes forth from God Most High, when 'he' speaks, and contains all attributes of God, the golden rule being the manifestation of some of those attributes in the physical - those which lead to creation - the beginning and the end, and is God's Will made manifest, what compels, drives, guides, from beginning to end.

In other words, loving others as ourselves is what happens, is what we do in thought, word and deed, when we have come in contact with the Word of God - which is an experience indescribable other than how it transforms us into Christ's righteousness. So what you are describing is not the Word of God per se, but one of the manifestations of the Word of God in the realms of creation.

Future of God Amen is an attempt, as you surmised, to inform all believers of the Judaic, Christian, and Islamic religions to acknowledge that their God has matured from the values and beliefs in the first one-universal God Amen.

Again, this is not the Name that God Most High revealed Himself, but one that men applied to their ideas of a Sole God.

Amen is indeed an attribute of God - and by attribute it can be called one of the Names of God, but we will discover more about God is we consider the Holy, Sacred Names through which God revealed himself.

El Elyon (alef lamed - ayin lamed nun) God Most High
Eheieh ( alef hei yod hei) That which was, is, and will be
Yahweh (yod hei vav hei) indescribable here
Elohim (ayin lamed hei mem) One God in Many
Adonai (alef dalet nun yod) Lord

A study of these Names of God - especially considering the Hebrew letters - will reveal that Amen is indeed contained within these, but this simple word alone in whatever language is insufficient to describe God Most High.

And might I offer here that God is more of a verb than a noun, so in seeking to Name himself, God seeks words that can point to infinite movement or energy, instead of fixed objects.

Mankind has subconsciously refused to ignore the name Amen and has kept its connotation as being Truth, firm, and yes, as Reese revealed to me, it also means “God, trustworthy King,” and, “ the God of Truth.” All these references further support the fact that they emulate the God Amen.

The masses, who are content with their limited understanding - not yet ready for more, will look upon anything other than their tradition as a lie, heretical. But within mankind, within every culture and language, there exists a hidden spirituality, or 'religion' or teaching that knows how what you are seeing fits into the infinite. These hidden groups - though much less hidden now than in the past when their lives would be at risk if they went public - are found by those who are ready to let go of limited constructs, who truly hunger and thirst for righteousness.

Viv, you then expressed some concern about Amen by stating: “But if I might offer some counsel? Extolling Amon, the Egyptian God, as the sole God, and implying that Jesus was in some way recognizing this Amon as superior to himself in the verse from Revelation is not going to win us any friends and is not going to positively influence others.” I have never extolled Amen as being superior to Jesus but only stated what Jesus is proclaiming to the rest of the world in John’s Revelation 3:14. It is difficult to undo a gross error by the Church Fathers who do not acknowledge that Jesus was referring to Amen as being, “the beginning of the creation of God.” What Jesus has said is a Truth, in that Amen is the first one-universal God and is the root and foundation of the belief in God by worshippers of the Judaic religion. Notice that Jesus stated Amen was the ”faithful and true witness.” Jesus did not say Amen is God but acknowledged that he is the beginning of the creation of God now worshipped by the Hebrews. As the faithful and true witness, could Amen be a form of the Holy Spirit, the spirit of God that pervades the universe and entered into the hearts and minds of the Egyptian people?

These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God:

This who is speaking is also called:

Revelation 1 1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw.

What was speaking, calling himself the Amen, was the Angel of Jesus, who had bore witness to the Word of God.

There is a lot of mystery here, my friend, which we will not see if we cling to any mental construct. But just looking logically, this Angel calling itself the Amen, is also calling itself a witness to the Word, and I offer that while the witness is contained in El Elyon as potential, which then manifested at the beginning of creation, to confuse El Elyon with one it 'his' attributes, even one that appeared in manifestation at the beginning of Creation, will limit us as we seek greater understanding. And again, these ancient Egyptians, it appears to me, simply gave one the attributes or many Names of God as a designation of God Most High.

To put this another way, while I see Amen as one of the Names of God, I see the God Amon as merely a mental construct created by the ancient Egyptians who were seeing a one universal God. They took a historical revelation of God, in a being called Amon, and revised the history so that it contained what they were seeing in God in that moment.

Amon in Egypt is revised history. El Elyon to the children of Isreal was a true revelation of God Most High, and can become a personal revelation, and will become a personal revelation to each of us.

It just came to mind to share with the 13 attributes of Mercy of God Most High. A study of this can reveal to us how Amen is one of the attributes of God Most High, but is not 'him' in total.

13 Attributes of Mercy of God Most High found in Exodus 34:

5 Now the LORD descended in the cloud and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. 6 And the LORD passed before him and proclaimed, “The LORD, the LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth (aman), 7 keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children’s children to the third and the fourth generation.”

Under no circumstance should any religious leader deny the spiritual belief Egyptians had for their God Amen. Simply because Egypt fell due to the many invasions by Palestinians, Syrians, Libyans, Nubians, Greeks, Romans, and finally Islamic occupation, does not mean Egypt’s God is nothing to revere and should be ignored as an accident in the history of man. It is to be noted that the greatest library in Alexandria in Egypt had its books destroyed to dismiss much of the history of mankind. Were the books destroyed by religious leaders?

You, my friend, are speaking of an historical mental construct of God, and a much better, more expansive constructs exists, for those who are ready! In addition, those in the outer church will not hear what you are trying to say, especially not with the vehicle you are using - a historical mental construct of God derived by the ancient Egyptians! If they could hear, they would be on the journey you are on, discovering for themselves that the mental construct of God in their religion is limited and that a greater understanding of God exists in our world! Many of these, like you, have written books about their discoveries.

As shared, I understand why this speaks so much to you - it most certainly broke down some limiting ideas about God that you had been taught. For that I give praise and thanks to Elohim.

Viv, you then made the statement, “Jesus is far superior to these for he opened the Way not just for transcendence from this world, or to gain right understanding, but for us to find Unity with God.” You must not forget Moses, Father of the Judaic religion. True, what you said about Jesus, but he is a follow-on of Moses who, brought up in the palace of a pharaoh for 40 years, taught many of the Egyptian beliefs to the Hebrews. You see, there were many righteous men before Jesus, who himself learned much wisdom from Hebrew masters of the Torah.

It is my understanding that the Messiah could have incarnated right then and there, in or through Moses, but the world was not ready yet. It took over a 1000 years after Moses before the Messiah could incarnate in flesh. Moses was lesser than Jesus, because humanity was not ready yet for more.

Jesus summed it when he said: Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts...

The hearts of humanity were still too hard to receive and accept the Savior.

Do not forget that both Jesus and his mother Mary were brought up and raised by Jewish Holy Men; Jesus was a benefactor of such learning.

Indeed. It took over a thousand years to create a woman Holy enough to be the mother of the Messiah! It took over a 1000 years to create a family and a set of temple teachers who could instruct him. But he was and is more than all of them. As the first fruits he is our Savior, opening up the Way for our own personal experiencing of El Elyon.

Jesus was a man of God and it was the Church Fathers that elevated Jesus to not only being the Son of God, for they were not content with that, they formulated the Trinity generations after the Gospels were written, and made Jesus not only co-equal with God, but to be God.

In a study of one of the deeper understandings, you might be able to find reconciliation regarding this thought.

How sad that religious leaders would fabricate a concept that is wholly inconsistent with the original belief of God in the Torah; inconsistent with the fact that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Ghost (God) and created within the womb of his mother Mary. Shall we neglect the contributions made by the Egyptian Priesthood, Moses, the Holy Men that wrote the Torah and only extoll Jesus? Jesus never wrote his beliefs but yes, he was a Son of Man. A reference he explicitly made of himself 76 times in the Gospels and only 5 times, in the last Gospel of John, did he explicitly state he was the Son of God. It is possible to ignore the honesty of Jesus saying he is the Son of Man and accept he is a Son of God. But to say Jesus is co-equal to and is God is heresy, a blatant distortion of the Truth. In Truth, God is mysterious, unknowable, and incomprehensible. Nobody really knows God.

It can help to learn what 'Son of Man' meant among the culture in which he spoke.

He was actually saying with that phrase that he was the Ben Adam - an offspring of Adam in Genesis 1:26-27. This Adam is Holy Spiritual Adam, not the mankind that inhabits this world, though we come from this Spiritual Holy Adam. Jesus, is saying something very powerful, very significant, when he says he is the Son of this Holy Adam.

Jesus, the personality that walked this world, was both not God, but also God, as a temple for God, because with his consciousness, or Soul, he was One with God. The Father and I are One. And so being One with the Father, he was United with God - his body in physical manifestation then becoming a perfected temple for God's Spirit. And so he moved and thought and spoke in perfect unity with God, thus being God in physical manifestation. This is the Messiah, the first fruits of creation - for this is the intent of all creation. Again, there is a lot of mystery here.

I do though understand the rift and offer that both sides of this argument are 'right' and can be reconciled in God Most High. If one truly believes in a Sole God, then how can any man have a thought that is outside of God?

Viv, I do not like an untruth and dishonesty by religious leaders who, in years past were able to fabricate an idea and promulgate it as Truth. I stress this because you also referred to Jesus as the God Head and also wrote, “So in Jesus we have not only Amen, but all the attributes of God, so that Jesus is superior to the Egyptian God Amon who given his name appears to be solely known for only one attribute of God, faithfulness, not the Godhead in its fullness.”

Revelation 3:14 clearly says that whoever is speaking is the Amen. The Angel of Jesus is speaking for Jesus, saying ‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God'. This is also clearly saying that the Amen is the Witness.

I offer to you that the Angel of Jesus, in speaking for Jesus, is saying that as One with the Father, United with the Father, he is witness to the beginning of Creation, and so thus is Amen or truth or faithfulness going out and bearing witness to what is experienced in such Unity. When we consider that the same occurs for all created beings who Unite with Father and thus become witnesses to creation, we realize then that all of creation too will eventually become truth - having bared witness to the beginning. (When we bare witness to the beginning through being United with the Father, we not only are One with the Father, but One with the beginning and end of creation - and all that transpires in between, so that we can then be faithful witnesses through out creation of this witness in Unity. This is a mystery.)

You need to read Future of God Amen to learn that Amen was revered for many other attributes other than Truth and faithfulness. You are describing Jesus as the Godhead, which implies that he is the head of the Father, the God that conceived Jesus within the womb of Mary. You know, most people are very shallow in their belief of God and unless the reverence is given to a God they would not give much credibility to the words of a Son of Man. I would follow the words of Jesus without him being raised to the level of a God. Would you?

Yes, I did jump to a conclusion, given that this attribute or Name of God was chosen by men, not revealed by God Himself, to call the one universal God of their mental construct. And I do apologize for my faulty conclusions. As offered, I realize now that this sole God was merely a mental construct created by men, it was not a revelation of God which called itself Amon. And yes it is a much more expanded mental construct than what we find typically in the outer churches, but an inferior mental construct compared to what is found among the hidden or not so hidden wisdom traditions. If I might offer, what you are seeing and what you are rejecting are both true, both can be found in God Most High, and if you hunger and thirst to know, holding loosely to your present mental constructs, you will find.

Future of God Amen is an attempt to wake people up to the truth of the beginning of God and how that God has influenced the development of the Judaic, Christian, and Islamic religions. But also, in writing this book, many weaknesses have been revealed in the scriptures of these religions, especially in the Koran. Few people have the courage to reveal what I have written in Future of God Amen but I pursued such a course because I love humanity and am compelled to share the Truth with others.

I am most knowable of Christian scripture - canonical and non-canon, and might I suggest that you look beyond the canon? I have found that there is nothing wrong with our scripture, but only with our limited interpretations. Non-canonical scripture can open up our minds, if we are ready to let go of limited ideas, to a greater mental construct.

Again, Jesus was everything that you think he was, yet he was and is also everything that the outer church thinks he was and is. And more. These are not mutual exclusive ideas in the mind of Christ.

Might I also offer that you are indeed on your way to finding Truth, but Truth is not our ideas or mental constructs of Truth.

When we too can say The Father and I are One - we will then have found the Truth.

If I do not make such an effort, who will? Circumstances in life make us what we are in terms of experience, education, and the people and teachers one meets in life. We all have a different set of eyes and disposition and therefore see things differently. I am blessed by God to think with a disposition of love. Hopefully there will be others who understand that the Truth will prevail.

Sometimes when we focus on others and their limitations, we are missing our own. If we are telling others to let go of their limited ideas about God, we have to be willing to let go of our own.

Only with Truth, will science and faith be compatible in our quest to know God. Science tests its findings to substantiate the Truth of their conclusions, and religious beliefs must always be based upon Truth of man’s experiences to validate the faith in God. Both approaches must operate on Truth; one is actual verification while the other is hypothetically true based upon thoughts derived from experience. Faith without logical reasoning means nothing. Belief must be rooted in valid thoughts that are supported by the gift of curiosity and thinking that sometimes result in realities. Many of our greatest inventions and discoveries where first conceived with the mind. Even when the mind cannot be satisfied with actual findings, the gut feel of Truth can be satisfied by logic devoid of lies and fabrications, which our scriptures have due to the inability to correct certain thoughts no longer acceptable.

Yes, I believe that all that we discovery in religion, science, art, humanity, etc. is all part of Truth and found in God Most High. Our job is to hunger and thirst and remain open for new revelations and their integration within us.

Accept the Truth of Jesus in his acknowledgement of Amen as, “the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.” These are words of great insight and a Revelation for the minds of believers to reflect upon today. Only until Amen is accepted as a Common Bond by religious leaders of the three major religions will there finally be a unification in the belief of God and a breakthrough in obeying the Word of God – love one another.

I find scripture clear here. The Angel of Jesus, who was speaking for Jesus, called himself the Amen, the faithful witness, the beginning of creation. And I recall several places in scripture where Holy men described God as aman.

But no where do I see in scripture God Most High calling himself Amen, or aman. And if I am understanding what you are sharing correctly, the ancient Egyptians took an historical revelation of a God called Amon, one who might have even called himself Amon, and revised what was recorded as being revealed initially to reflect their now expanding mental construct of a one universal God?

We do not have a record that in the initial revelation of Amon, we have a one universal God being revealed, is that correct? Such a designation came from man's revision of history?

And so I offer that we have a much greater revelation of God Most High in Christ Jesus.

Yes, we have Jesus through the Angel, calling himself the Amen. He also called himself the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, and witness to the Word.

Jesus came clothed in the Name of God, YHVH, meaning he was a manifestation of all attributes of all Names of God, in the flesh. (Hebrews 1). We have all 13 attributes of Mercy embodied and manifested in Jesus - not just Aman, in the physical realm, and now in the spiritual realms with Jesus now a Son of God.

Perhaps, and this is an assumption, the ancient Egyptians took a true revelation of God in Amon, who was named so because this is the attribute or Name of God that he bore, and created a mental construct out of the historical record of this revelation which reflected a more expansive understanding of God which they were now seeing.

Do you see the difference between this mental construct and a revelation of God which bore the full Name of God, as did Christ Jesus?

My best wishes to Viv, a Daughter of God
Nicholas P. Ginex

Peace be with you, my friend. And don't take my word on any of this. Knock and it will be opened up to you. Seek and you will find.

Shalom!

Viv

[jo7241974]

Viv,

You are doing a beautiful job of communicating. I want to say yet again how much I appreciate you and your beautiful spirit. Your efforts are bearing good fruit!

Shalom!!

jo

[Bowman]

Actually, the Bible itself teaches that Jesus is God. (Isaiah 9:6; John 20:28-29), and that he is the creator (Hebrews 1:8-10; John 1:1-3, 14). I recommend you read the church fathers from 90 C.E. to 250 C.E. and you'll see that the trinity was taught from the time of the apostles and their students, Polycarp, Ignatius, etc. The OT also teaches the trinity as well, and I can provide references for that. So I'm wondering if you believe in the whole Bible, or just parts of it.

Agreed...